Eastern Europe from a Western perspective

[Peterski]

Again: the Easterners didn't start with nothing. Not in the case of Czechoslavia where Bohemia (particularly the Sudetenland) had been industrialised by the Austrians since the 19th century. Poland inherited many of the Austrian and German industries whereas nothing had changed in the once-Russian East. They merely took over the old industry. In the case of the rest: not much was going on.

Division of the Vistula River Basin between 3 empires had a negative impact on development of the whole area during the 1800s. Sure you can claim that Prussian part was developing much faster than Russian part, but still it would have been better if the area was politically United - that is, if the partitions of Poland never happened. Congress Poland was actually more industrialized than Austrian Galicia.

[Jana]

I think the problem is probably older than that. Most of these countries don't have a real democratic history to begin with. No history of popular particular or strength. They do have one of popular servitude. Apart from Poland, no Eastern country was touched by the growing pains of European civilization: they weren't touched by the Renaissance, the Reformation or the Enlightenment The Industrial Revolution too, for them, came from abroad and mostly came only AFTER the communists had taken over.

I hope you are joking or Dutch educational system is utterly weak.

Reniessance was extremely strong in Croatia for example, and as well in Hungary, I am certain we have much stronger reneissance traditions than you do.
I can name long list of poets, writers, architects and sculptors who marked our culture in that period. Reformation was so strong in now purely Catholic Poland for example, that majority for their nobility converted to protestantism at one period of time. Same in Hungary, Bohemia or Slovenes lands.

No parliament ? My country had feudal parliament since middle ages.

This is bunch of nonsense and it seems many western Europeans are very poorly educated. One undemocratic Russia for instance has much stronger educational system than average western country, and young Russians in bigger cities have more cultural and intellectual needs than average Brit or German today. Believe me. It is due to schools in the west going american way and learning practical skills while neglecting common cultural knowledge, apart from German traditional gymnasiums.

[Magnolia]

Again: the Easterners didn't start with nothing. Not in the case of Czechoslavia where Bohemia had been industrialised by the Austrians since the 19th century. Poland inherited many of the Austrian and German industries whereas nothing had changed in the once-Russian East. They merely took over the old industry. In the case of the rest: not much was going on.

lol What a lie - do you think that companies like Škoda, Tatra, Baťa, etc. were Austrian/German business - or what. Czechs were fighting for independence they had a great motivation to create own industry and they did. What more communists destroyed everything - so yeah we started with ZERO in 1989.

[The Lawspeaker]

lol What a lie - do you think that companies like Škoda, Tatra, Baťa, etc. were Austrian/German business - or what. Czechs were fighting for independence they had a great motivation to create own industry and they did. What more communists destroyed everything - so yeah we started with ZERO in 1989.

And where were all these companies located ?

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I think the problem is probably older than that. Most of these countries don't have a real democratic history to begin with. No history of popular particular or strength. They do have one of popular servitude. Apart from Poland, no Eastern country was touched by the growing pains of European civilization: they weren't touched by the Renaissance, the Reformation or the Enlightenment The Industrial Revolution too, for them, came from abroad and mostly came only AFTER the communists had taken over.

In Roman Catholic Europe and Protestant Europe there was an earlier separation of powers between the church and state which gave more room to enlightenment that lead to the cessation of absolute monarchies in the West earlier than it did in the East, which kept feudal and serfdom systems in some nations until the early XXth century.

In the West we always had a natural spirit of endeavour which made us always go further, discover the world and make settlements. During the Industrial Revolution our Eastern counterparts were at tremendous disadvantage because they weren't colonial powers and industrialisation in the XIX century was built on colonies’ resources.

[Dandelion]

Czech culture seems dynamic enough. You probably don't like them because they're very atheistic. The sum of a very irreligious population + communism does make me seem they have more anticlerical ideological atheism ingrained in their culture, whereas ours is non-anti-clerical irreligiosity. Some Belgians did send a request to their local bishop to have their name removed from the baptism registers, but most irreligious Belgians aren't that anti-Catholic. Still, Czech have a liberal and individualistic culture. They're no sheep.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Isn't corruption a big issue in most SE countries?

It is but it is more endemic and visible in Eastern Europe.

[The Lawspeaker]

In Roman Catholic Europe and Protestant Europe there was an earlier separation of powers between the church and state which gave more room to enlightenment that lead to the cessation of absolute monarchies in the West earlier than it did in the East, which kept feudal and serfdom system in some nations until the early XXth century.

In the West we always had a natural spirit of endeavour which made us always go further, discover the world and make settlements. During the Industrial Revolution our Eastern counterparts were at tremendous disadvantage because they weren't colonial powers and industrialisation in the XIX century was built on colonies’ resources.

I don't think it has much to do with colonies. Much of the Belgian industries didn't revolve around colonial products and in the case of the Netherlands there were certainly some (food products like chocolate, but also rubber and oil) but the majority revolved around cotton, leather, petrol refinery, shipbuilding, agricultural implements, potato-related products like strawboard.

[The Lawspeaker]

lol What a lie - do you think that companies like Škoda, Tatra, Baťa, etc. were Austrian/German business - or what. Czechs were fighting for independence they had a great motivation to create own industry and they did. What more communists destroyed everything - so yeah we started with ZERO in 1989.

And they were all located in the West. Ever noticed that pattern ? That's where the Austrian education system was, where the bankers and investors could be found.

[The Lawspeaker]

I hope you are joking or Dutch educational system is utterly weak.

Reniessance was extremely strong in Croatia for example, and as well in Hungary, I am certain we have much stronger reneissance traditions than you do.
I can name long list of poets, writers, architects and sculptors who marked our culture in that period. Reformation was so strong in now purely Catholic Poland for example, that majority for their nobility converted to protestantism at one period of time. Same in Hungary, Bohemia or Slovenes lands.

No parliament ? My country had feudal parliament since middle ages.

This is bunch of nonsense and it seems many western Europeans are very poorly educated. One undemocratic Russia for instance has much stronger educational system than average western country, and young Russians in bigger cities have more cultural and intellectual needs than average Brit or German today. Believe me. It is due to schools in the west going american way and learning practical skills while neglecting common cultural knowledge, apart from German traditional gymnasiums.

Then why did Croatia do nothing with these traditions ?