Which city has a higher percentage of fluent English-speakers: Amsterdam or Miami?

[Tooting Carmen]

Personally, I have very mixed feelings about the growth of Spanish in the US. On the one hand, I certainly believe that Latin Americans living in the US should learn English not merely for utilitarian reasons but above all out of basic courtesy and decency. On the other hand, however, even leaving aside my own allegiances and origins, there is an element of karma in how Spanish has spread in the US much like how English has spread in many other parts of the world. Why is it any more 'wrong' for a Mexican or Cuban who has lived in the US for ten years to expect to be able to do business in Spanish than it is for a Brit or an American who has lived in France, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Dubai, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Thailand or Singapore for ten years to expect to be able to do business in English?

[Tooting Carmen]

It should also be emphasised that even in very multiethnic British cities like Leicester, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester, the percentage of residents who speak little or no English doesn't remotely compare especially to Miami but also to a lesser extent many other big US cities.

[Dandelion]

Never been to Miami. Many Dutch speak English poorly though, but can get around 'with hands and feet' (to use a Dutch expression). It's called 'steenkolenengels'.

[The Lawspeaker]

As in the inhabitants of the city ? Ooh dear.. that could be a close match since Amsterdam is now minority-Dutch.

[Tooting Carmen]

As in the inhabitants of the city ? Ooh dear.. that could be a close match since Amsterdam is now minority-Dutch.

True, but don't many immigrants also speak English, not least for communicating with tourists in their jobs?

[The Lawspeaker]

True, but don't many immigrants also speak English, not least for communicating with tourists in their jobs?

That depends. A lot of them drop out after VMBO. The higher the school system, the whiter is becomes.

[Alexandro]

I would say Amsterdam, went there once and everyone could speak English. Most everyone in Miami knows how to speak English somewhat ok, but fluency (especially among the older Cuban types) is not as common. In that city it is possible to be a very successful business owner and not speak a single word of English!

And, if you want to get a service industry job for example, in Miami it is essentially a requirement to know at least some Spanish. I have mixed opinions on this personally because as an immigrant there should be a certain degree of assimilation which takes place, but a lot of Latinos move to Miami and just live as if they are back in their home country, not saying they need to become "gringo" - ized or anything either but ehhhh.

[Tooting Carmen]

I would say Amsterdam, went there once and everyone could speak English. Most everyone in Miami knows how to speak English somewhat ok, but fluency (especially among the older Cuban types) is not as common. In that city it is possible to be a very successful business owner and not speak a single word of English!

And, if you want to get a service industry job for example, in Miami it is essentially a requirement to know at least some Spanish. I have mixed opinions on this personally because as an immigrant there should be a certain degree of assimilation which takes place, but a lot of Latinos move to Miami and just live as if they are back in their home country, not saying they need to become "gringo" - ized or anything either but ehhhh.

Do even most Whites and Blacks in Miami know Spanish? I do remember going into a Dunkin' Donuts in Downtown and the Afram women working there seemed to communicate OK with some South American customers in Spanish.

[Alexandro]

Do even most Whites and Blacks in Miami know Spanish? I do remember going into a Dunkin' Donuts in Downtown and the Afram women working there seemed to communicate OK with some South American customers in Spanish.

Well, most people who have been living in Miami long enough have at least a rudimentary understanding of Spanish, because it is sort of a necessity living there as I said, especially if you want a career. Depending on the industry, someone will always have a leg up on you because they speak Spanish.

However, are these people typically speaking C2 level Spanish either? No.

[Tooting Carmen]

Well, most people who have been living in Miami long enough have at least a rudimentary understanding of Spanish, because it is sort of a necessity living there as I said, especially if you want a career. Depending on the industry, someone will always have a leg up on you because they speak Spanish.

However, are these people typically speaking C2 level Spanish either? No.

The funny thing is how many Brits look down their noses at Americans, thinking we're the more 'cultured' and 'outward-looking' ones, yet even in London, Birmingham, Leicester, Bradford and Manchester it is not that common to find signs and info provided in languages other than English like you can often find in Miami, NYC and LA.