The ancient Greeks have Europeanized the southern Italians genetically?

[manu15151513]

We know that the ancient Greeks have contributed a lot to determine the ancestral origins of southern Italians. They were mostly doriums, ions and achaeans, hence Indo-Europeans, and the areas of southern Italy that would seem to derive more from them are abnormally displaced towards the north (Puglia and south-eastern Sicily).


So, is it possible that the ancient Greeks have Europeanized the autosomal mixture of the southern Italians, and that without them it would have appeared considerably closer to the east? Calabria has had a lot to do with the Greeks of the Magna Grecia, yet they tend very much to the east on average.

[Sikeliot]

I think it depends on which Greeks. We should remember that Mycenaeans, Minoans, and pre-Greek Sicilians were probably all very similar. The Sicilian Bell Beaker sample is close to Minoans.

Cretans and other Aegean islanders are genetically close to southern Italians to begin with, which means if you mixed Calabrians and Sicilians with Dodecanese, you would not be able to tell the difference between them and unmixed members of each group. All of these groups have Near Eastern admixture from a third party source which never reached mainland Greece.

The difference between an Aegean islander and a southern Italian, is comparable to the difference between an English and an Irish person.

On the other hand, mixing with mainland Greeks likely would always have increased the NE European element in southern Italy, since I doubt there was ever a time it was higher in southern Italy than in Greece.

[xripkan]

The Mycenaens were Indo-European. According to Eupedia it is possiblle that they belonged to R-Z93 branch of R1a haplogroup. The Minoans and other pre-Greek populations of Greece were really very similar to Sicilian. In fact the Dodecanese islands were settled by Greeks during the Iron Age Migration. The Greek population mixed with the locals which were fully hellenized but the pre-Greek dna remained to some extent. Maybe this is the reason why Eastern Aegean population are very similar to Sicilians. Because they are a mix of ancient Mediterranean civilizations and Greek people.

[Sikeliot]

The Mycenaens were Indo-European. According to Eupedia it is possiblle that they belonged to R-Z93 branch of R1a haplogroup. The Minoans and other pre-Greek populations of Greece were really very similar to Sicilian. In fact the Dodecanese islands were settled by Greeks during the Iron Age Migration. The Greek population mixed with the locals which were fully hellenized but the pre-Greek dna remained to some extent. Maybe this is the reason why Eastern Aegean population are very similar to Sicilians. Because they are a mix of ancient Mediterranean civilizations and Greek people.

This is my opinion. Sicilians are close to the pre-Greek people of Greece (Pelasgians, Minoans, etc) and the more Indo-European Greeks have gotten, the less close to that base they are.

[Livin]

This is my opinion. Sicilians are close to the pre-Greek people of Greece (Pelasgians, Minoans, etc) and the more Indo-European Greeks have gotten, the less close to that base they are.

Early -Myceneans were probably ANE people closer to modern northern europeans etc.IMO these people hellenized the whole greek mainland and the aegean islands(crete,dodecannesa etc).

If you think that the greek language belongs to indoeuropean spectrum and the people who lived before their arrival(pelasgians,minoans,eterocrytans etc) were talking languages from near east.


What i don't get,as you said why this near east admixture never reach mainland greece and even the north/western parts.

[Sikeliot]

Early -Myceneans were probably ANE people closer to modern northern europeans etc.IMO these people hellenized the whole greek mainland and the aegean islands(crete,dodecannesa etc).

If you think that the greek language belongs to indoeuropean spectrum and the people who lived before their arrival(pelasgians,minoans,eterocrytans etc) were talking languages from near east.


What i don't get,as you said why this near east admixture never reach mainland greece and even the north/western parts.

What I mean to say is that people like Sicilians, Dodecanese, Cretans are basically Minoan-like people with some Near Eastern admixture that arrived later, and minor "northern" input from Italics and Greeks proper. Their Indo-European input was secondhand, meaning by the time Greeks and Italics got to places like Sicily and Rhodes, their actual Indo-European element had gotten bred out as they moved south.