Results 1 to 3 of 3

Thread: How much "croatian" was the Republic of Ragusa?

  1. #1
    Member Dalmatinac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Last Online
    12-12-2023 @ 10:15 AM
    Location
    Split-Dalmatia county
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Croatian
    Ancestry
    Dalmatia
    Country
    Croatia
    Region
    Dalmatia
    Hero
    Petar Berislavić
    Religion
    Culturally catholic
    Relationship Status
    Married
    Gender
    Posts
    163
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 94
    Given: 75

    1 Not allowed!

    Default How much "croatian" was the Republic of Ragusa?

    Generally, ragusan history is accepted among historians and scholars as part of croatian history. However, how much of croatian identity did the Republic of Ragusa and its inhabitants really have? Our eastern neighbours would say none, however I strongly disagree with this and here's why. Although I must agree with the fact that Ragusans generally preferred to declare as either Ragusans or Dalmatians, there are many sources which prove that they were much closer to croatian than any other south slavic identity. I'll just present few of of the sources I've come across during my research and they generally come from the Ragusans themselves. I didn't have time to translate them to english but I can do it on request.

    1564 g. - Nikola Nalješković, dubrovački pjesnik (1510.-1586.) piše u poslanici Ivanu Vidalu, vlastelinu i pjesniku
    korčulanskom:

    "Tim narod Hrvata vapije i viče da
    s'kruna od zlata, kojom se svi diče.
    Gospoda slavna pak bnetačka gdi čuju
    da tebe hvati svak, ljube te i čuju.
    Krkar se grad vami diči jak nevista
    imavši drag kami srid zlata pričista
    A tiepi Dubrovnik sa svu te moć slavi:
    ovi je blažen vik cić tebe svaki pravi.
    Slave je tvoje Hvar novi pun i stari,
    kojom te s neba zgar božja moć nadari.
    Tiem ravni grad Zadar iz glasa upije
    da imaš boži dar ki druzim dan nie.
    Šibenik još i Spljet s Kotorom svi druzi sciene te...".
    Vidali je odgovario:

    "Časti izabrana, Niko, i hvala velika,
    hrvatskoga diko i slavo jezika
    (...)
    Dubrovnik grad svitli i slavan zadosti
    svake Bog nadili obilno milosti,
    Gospodom uresi, zakonmi i pravdom
    razlicim uzvisi imanjem i blagom
    Svuda ga jes puna slava, svud on slove,
    hrvatskih ter kruna gradov se svih zove ...
    još dobro ima to i dar taj Bogom dan,
    da slavnijeh zdrži broj spijevalac neskončan".

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1527 g. - Dubrovacki benediktinac i pjesnik Mavro Vetranovic-Cavcic (1482-1576) pise svoju znamenitu pjesmu "Lovac i vila", u kojoj ima Vilin poziv dubrovackoj vlasteli. Poziv veli :

    "Još neka da znate, po svijetu svak pravi,
    da ste sve Dalmate natekli u slavi,
    Ne samo Dalmate, gospodo pridraga,…
    neg još sve Hrvate skupivši jednaga".

    U 1539 g. Vetranovic u poslanici pjesniku i vlastelinu s Hvara Petru Hektorovicu kaze:

    "a navlaš kud jezik hrvatski prohodi,
    neumrla po vas vik tuj vrijednos da hodi...."


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1597 g. Dubrovacki hrvatski renesansni pjesnik Dinko Zlataric (1558-1613), izdao zbirku svojih prijevoda pod naslovom:

    "Elektra, trađedija, Ljubmir, pripovijes pastijerska te Ljubav i smrt Pirama i Tizbe, iz veće tuđijeh jezika u hrvacki složene"

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1665 g. - Dubrovacki plemic i pjesnik Vladislav Mencetic u "Trublji Slovinskoj" piše:

    "Od ropstva bi davno u valih
    potonula Italija,
    o hrvatskijeh da se žalih
    more otmansko ne razbija
    (...)"

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Oko 1820 g. - Marko Bruerević-Desrivaux (1770-1823), pohrvaceni dubrovacki Francuz, pise u pjesmi "Satira":

    "Ti koji dni traješ i noći knjige promećeš,
    Pomnjivo tražeći slovinskoga naroda slave
    Bi l' uzrok men' po sreći dokazati znao
    S pivnice jer svako do glasovita Pregata
    Slavne bi se slatko hrvatske odreko starine?
    Jer čupa od župskijeh do najponosnije vladike
    Stidi se svak jezik slovinski čisto govorit ?
    (.......)"

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Maro Dragović, vlastelin kotorski, kao posvetu Bartolu Kašiću
    (1575-1650)
    u djelu "Pjesni duhovne od pohvala Božjih" (Rim 1617.)

    "Naši Dalmatini, i vas rod Harvacki".

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

  2. #2
    Parcere subiectis, debellare superbos. gıulıoımpa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Last Online
    10-02-2023 @ 09:47 PM
    Location
    Lazio
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Italic
    Ethnicity
    Italian(50% Campania-25% Piedmont 25% Ciociaria/m.lepini), plot slightly West of Abruzzo (x534 y390)
    Ancestry
    3/4 Southern Italy+ 1/4 Northwestern Italy
    Country
    Italy
    Region
    Lazio
    Y-DNA
    J-L26 -(J2a1 ------> J-PF5197)
    mtDNA
    H5'36
    Taxonomy
    Med(Berid-like)+Dinaric .Skull shape similar to:Sutz eneolithic skull
    Politics
    Pragmatism should prevail. I pick the better fruits from left and right. Issues must be faced.
    Hero
    Every intellectually honest person. I'll be precise with people who act precisely.
    Religion
    Agnostic. I appreciate some aspects of religion(s) .I despise others and who feels entitled by them
    Relationship Status
    Engaged
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Posts
    4,302
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,376
    Given: 3,153

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    The culture of Ragusa was Latin, they spoke dalmatian language . the rich city (as all cities do) attracted many slavic people that settled in the coast nearby but not in the city proper (Dubrovik was the name of the adjacent slavic settlement that then was used as a new name for Ragusa after WW1) ...but the city remained of latin culture until 1800's.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  3. #3
    Member Dalmatinac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Last Online
    12-12-2023 @ 10:15 AM
    Location
    Split-Dalmatia county
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Croatian
    Ancestry
    Dalmatia
    Country
    Croatia
    Region
    Dalmatia
    Hero
    Petar Berislavić
    Religion
    Culturally catholic
    Relationship Status
    Married
    Gender
    Posts
    163
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 94
    Given: 75

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gıulıoımpa View Post
    The culture of Ragusa was Latin, they spoke dalmatian language . the rich city (as all cities do) attracted many slavic people that settled in the coast nearby but not in the city proper (Dubrovik was the name of the adjacent slavic settlement that then was used as a new name for Ragusa after WW1) ...but the city remained of latin culture until 1800's.
    Latin was the official language, but dalmatian and croatian were spoken on the streets. I agree that it was culturally latin republic in the beginning, but the majority of population in the city have been slavic ever since 11th or 12th century. For example, the greatest Ragusan literates were Slavs not Latin: Marin Držić, Ivan Gundulić, Vladislav Menčetić, Mavro Vetranović, Junije Palmotić etc. This thread deals with the identity of those Slavs who made up majority in the city.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 60
    Last Post: 03-23-2022, 01:22 PM
  2. "Serbia could revoke recognition of 'Republic of Macedonia'"
    By Mingle in forum Северна Македонија
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 12-15-2017, 07:15 AM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-24-2013, 12:21 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-10-2010, 09:39 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •