How much Celto-Germanic are Iberians and North Italians?

[Token]

The fact that extra Yamnaya admixture to the exclusion of the local Beaker samples of Southwestern Europe can be detected in modern-day Iberians and Italians might represent later steppe-rich Celto-Germanic historical introgessions. Something similar can be observed in the Balkans, where additional Yamnaya in modern-day Greeks to the exclusion of Mycenaeans is suggestive of Slavic input.

In order to detect later admixture events, such as Hallstatt movements spreading Celtic languages to Iberia and Northern Italy and later Völkerwanderung, i've isolated the pre Iron Age genepool of modern-day Southwestern Europeans, represented by the local Bronze Age averages.

As references to post IA introgressions, i've used Anglo-Saxon as a proxy for generic Germanic admixture taking into account that all Migration Period Germanic populations sampled until now cluster quite close to each other. The Bylany Hallstatt outgroup serves as a proxy for Celtic admixture for obvious reasons. Everything in conform with historical accounts.

[1] "distance%=1.4002"

Portuguese

Beaker_Iberia,49.4
Anatolia_BA,15.6
England_Anglo-Saxon,13.6
Mozabite,11.2
Hallstatt_Bylany,10.2


[1] "distance%=1.7954"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Beaker_Iberia,47
England_Anglo-Saxon,19.8
Anatolia_BA,13.6
Mozabite,11.2
Hallstatt_Bylany,8.4

[1] "distance%=1.3976"

Italian_Bergamo

Beaker_Northern_Italy,45.4
Anatolia_BA,22.2
Hallstatt_Bylany,17.8
England_Anglo-Saxon,13.6
Mozabite,1

[Not a Cop]

Is this K25? Are you shure it's sensitive enough to defferinate between proto-Celts and proto-Germanics? Can you show fits with only Celts and only Germanics?

[Token]

Is this K25? Are you shure it's sensitive enough to defferinate between proto-Celts and proto-Germanics? Can you show fits with only Celts and only Germanics?

Yes, to some extent. Using only Hallstatt or only Germanic worsen the fit significantly for all of them.
Here are Basques for comparison, comparatively much less Germanic and no Celtic at all. Pretty accurate, as there were no Celts in Vasconia.

[1] "distance%=1.9562"

Basque_Spanish

Beaker_Iberia,91.8
England_Anglo-Saxon,5.8
Anatolia_BA,2.4

Using the Celto-Germanic Roman era gladiator as proxy works equally well.

[1] "distance%=1.6884"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Beaker_Iberia,47.6
England_Roman,28.6
Anatolia_BA,12.6
Mozabite,11.2

[1] "distance%=1.4448"

Italian_Bergamo

Beaker_Northern_Italy,52
England_Roman,27
Anatolia_BA,19.4
Mozabite,1.6

[Damião de Góis]

Ideally you shoud use Ostrogoths for North Italy and Visigoths and Suebi for Iberia. Not sure about the celts.
What does Galicia (Suebi) and Asturias (supposed Visigoth refuge) score?

[Token]

Ideally you shoud use Ostrogoths for North Italy and Visigoths and Suebi for Iberia. Not sure about the celts.
What does Galicia (Suebi) and Asturias (supposed Visigoth refuge) score?

There are no Ostrogothic or Suebic samples avaiable for now.

[FilhoV]

The fact that extra Yamnaya admixture to the exclusion of the local Beaker samples of Southwestern Europe can be detected in modern-day Iberians and Italians might represent later steppe-rich Celto-Germanic historical introgessions. Something similar can be observed in the Balkans, where additional Yamnaya in modern-day Greeks to the exclusion of Mycenaeans is suggestive of Slavic input.

In order to detect later admixture events, such as Hallstatt movements spreading Celtic languages to Iberia and Northern Italy and later Völkerwanderung, i've isolated the pre Iron Age genepool of modern-day Southwestern Europeans, represented by the local Bronze Age averages.

As references to post IA introgressions, i've used Anglo-Saxon as a proxy for generic Germanic admixture taking into account that all Migration Period Germanic populations sampled until now cluster quite close to each other. The Bylany Hallstatt outgroup serves as a proxy for Celtic admixture for obvious reasons. Everything in conform with historical accounts.

[1] "distance%=1.4002"

Portuguese

Beaker_Iberia,49.4
Anatolia_BA,15.6
England_Anglo-Saxon,13.6
Mozabite,11.2
Hallstatt_Bylany,10.2


[1] "distance%=1.7954"

Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Beaker_Iberia,47
England_Anglo-Saxon,19.8
Anatolia_BA,13.6
Mozabite,11.2
Hallstatt_Bylany,8.4

[1] "distance%=1.3976"

Italian_Bergamo

Beaker_Northern_Italy,45.4
Anatolia_BA,22.2
Hallstatt_Bylany,17.8
England_Anglo-Saxon,13.6
Mozabite,1

Run my coordinates on this run

I sent it via messages a few weeks ago

[Jana]

Fantastic thread , looks pretty realistic to me

[Ibericus]

..Beakers themselves also contain the same ancestry as Celto-Germanics (Bronze-Age Central EUrope) so it's much higher than that.

[Coolguy1]

[1] "distance%=2.1329 / distance=0.021329"

Spanish_Andalusia (N=5)

Basque (N=9) 57.1
Mycenaean (N=4) 18.8
Corded_Ware_Germany_M348611 15.8
Moroccan (N=4) 8.3

This is just a hypothetical fit, who knows whether it has any historical accuracy.

[Grace O'Malley]

This is what I come out using those pops. I know it's not a good fit but I just find it interesting to compare. Everything gets soaked up into the Anglo-Saxon because no Beaker_Britain or Central European Beaker.

Distance 1.8454

Anatolia_EBA 0
Beaker_Iberia 6.67
England_Anglo Saxon 86.67
Hallstatt_Bylany 6.67
Mozabite 0

Irish

Fit 1.2395

Anatolia_EBA 0.83
Beaker_Iberia 7.5
England_Anglo Saxon 85.83
Hallstatt_Bylany 5.83
Mozabite 0

Replacing with England_Roman

Fit 2.0903 (Myself)

Anatolia EBA 0
Beaker_Iberia 0
England_Roman 95.83
Hallstatt Bylany 4.17
Mozabite 0

Fit 1.2903 (Irish)

Anatolia_EBA 0
Beaker_Iberia 0.83
England_Roman 98.33
Hallstatt_Bylany 0.83
Mozabite 0