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Wake up and smell the coffee.
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Just looked up the meaning of MGTOW. Never heard of it before.
Who's stopping anyone from self-determination? It just comes across as "special snowflake" to me. Don't men have a lot more freedom than women? When it's all said and done people make their own choices and it is up to us how we choose to live "to a certain degree". Not everyone has the same freedoms due to things like education, finances, responsibilities etc. I think you can march to your own drum to a certain extent. You don't have to buy into all the media hype and stereotypes. You can think for yourself.Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) refers to men committed to self-determination. Referring to oneself as a ”’Man Going His Own Way”’ (MGHOW) is a statement of self-ownership and a declaration that a man has the supreme right to decide what his goals in life will be as opposed to having his goals dictated by others who, in preference to self-determination, prescribe utility-based roles for males entailing servitude to women and society.
A lot of what we do is our own fault to a certain extent. There are things you can't control but you make your choices on who your partner is and if you want to be a doormat. I find these things are not so much gender based. There are mongrel men and women and there are great men and women. Good and bad people really. It's not so much gender based but some people carry a bit of a chip on their shoulder and instead of looking at themselves like to blame others. It's like "poor poor pitiful me".
MGTOW sounds just like sour grapes in reaction to something like "feminism". Some women carry that too far as well but most women like men and in dysfunctional relationships it is women that are much more likely to get murdered. Men are physically stronger than women after all. In most of history women haven't had it so great as far as self-determination goes. In most of the world they still don't. Anyway I think men have it good and women as well these days.
It's funny that Muslim men will follow this trend having kept their women in servitude for so long. Women just want to have full lives with opportunities like men. In some Asian countries i.e. Philippines, Thailand etc a lot of women want to get out as they are poor countries so they are trying to get men from overseas as a lot of them don't have much options. I think the West has lost a lot of values so there are a lot of problems here as well but as a woman I'm glad I was born in the West. I want to have self-determination as well and not rely on a man's income. It is important for a women to have a good education and be independent. I'm sure men with daughters would want that for them as well. You wouldn't want your daughters to subservient to men and not have choices? I don't understand this "us and them" attitude. Both men and women should have equal opportunities. We as societies want both our sons and daughters to prosper and have fulfilling lives where they can make a reasonable living and get to do great things like travel. If a man feels a women shouldn't have equal rights because he isn't getting his need's met well that is quite narcissistic. Countries that are most wealthy have both men and women participating in the workforce.
A lot of topics on here appear to me to be men feeling sorry for themselves and as if women are out to do them wrong. That's how it comes across to me. We all have choices though and sure you can be unfortunate and end up with a real arsehole but that happens to both women and men. Relationships aren't easy and the same thing happens with people who have same-sex relationships. Just don't lose your objectivity.
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You're forgetting something, sure the Indonesians, and most non-practicing Muslims risk that.
But there is still a big chunk of Muslims who are ready to ride around in the back of a Toyota Hilux with AK-47s while blasting this
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Wut?
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I think Grace is sadly mistaken about one thing (just like the upper class couldn't understand the plight of the workers) : in the West, it's the superior position of the woman that's enshrined in law. Be it in family law (divorce), be it in the workspace (affirmative action) or, indeed in criminal (where hearsay and made up stories can have a man convicted). We've come to that point that the legal position of a man here in the West is far worse than that of a woman during the Middle Ages (where attacks on a woman meant certain death because the city or Lord would hang you for it). It's not sour grapes when one can easily point out that the man is, essentially, bird-free.
As for the Muslim world: I don't care if their society disintegrates, in fact: I applaud it. Maybe if they will be fighting among themselves, they we will be left in alone and we can sort out our own problem.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
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I do agree that it isn't all easy for men in the west now. I think it must be quite confusing. I still think it is lovely if men have old fashioned manners and open the door for women etc. Some women though get a bit irritated with that. A lot of people have issues these days. I'm not anti-men by any means and think some women are a bit precious but men are less sleazy now than in the past which is a good thing. I do agree it can be unfair on many men when they get divorced and lose their children. It is a difficult situation as you have to weigh up what's best for the children and the parents. I think it must be hard for children in shared custody. I know many children find it very unsettling. It's definitely a complex situation.
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Wake up and smell the coffee.
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I think people aren't committed to marriage anymore. It is just a different mindset and I don't see people turning back the clock. Interestingly all the majority of my Irish relatives have long term marriages and very good marriages at that. I don't know how long that will last in Ireland though. I hope some of the old family values remain.
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That's Catholicism, for you ! No, I think the key lays in turning back the clock in a legal way: end no-fault divorce, make it unattractive to "ride the carousel" (particularly with migrants here) by only giving citizenship through the paternal line (as was done here prior to 1985) which would exclude women who ride the carousel from obtaining any welfare when they are left pregnant if the father isn't Dutch (after all, the child would not carry Dutch citizenship).. Those are just the first few steps. Of course, one should make abortion only available if there is a direct medical necessity and prescribe the pill only when there is a medical necessity (period regulation).
Wake up and smell the coffee.
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Why should a child gain citizenship from only the father when the mother is foreign and not from a Dutch woman? At least with women you know the child comes from them. Are you going to test children genetically to make sure the Dutch father is actually the father? I obviously don't agree with that and I don't think most people would either.
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