The most genetically Celtic population in the world, is it that of Ireland or Wales or Scotland ?

[Creoda]

I think if you were raised to think of yourself as Celtic and it being an important part of the your identity then it is a bit confronting to find out you are not some special identity. I remember when I first realised that the Irish weren't this special group "the Celts" in a sea of Angles and Dutch etc I had a bit of difficulty getting my head around it. That was about 8 to 9 years ago. I was brought up by my father to believe I was an Irish Celt. I've realised now that Irish identity isn't tied in with being a Celt. I find it better to think of myself and the Irish as Gaels and that is a more "Insular Celtic" identity that doesn't rely on being Continental Celtic. I still feel a connection to Continental Celts especially the Gauls and the Irish do speak a Celtic language and have the great Irish myths such as Finn McCool, the Tuatha De Danaan, the Dagda etc. It has it's own rich culture and heritage. So whether the Irish have much Continental Celtic input or not is okay with me.

I see it a bit differently. The Irish are overwhelmingly descended from Gaels, part of the ancient Celtic world, and the majority of Celtic culture as the world knows it today is old Insular culture. So the Irish are truly ancestrally Celtic in one way, just not quite from the Celts; but who is? On the contrary I think not speaking the language is the most confronting thing to any sense of Celticness. When I hear Gaelic/Welsh spoken it's so foreign to me that it might as well be Greek, that alone is how I know I'm not Celtic, plus all the associated customs/traditions I don't follow. On the other hand I know that most of my ancestors 2000 years ago spoke those languages and had those customs, ipso facto Celtic people.

Regardless, there is far, far too much discussion of these ancient ethno-linguistic categories that are irrelevant today, and I get bored of discussing it. The Irish are Irish, the English are English, Scots are Scottish etc etc, not much more in reality.

[Grace O'Malley]

I see it a bit differently. The Irish are overwhelmingly descended from Gaels, part of the ancient Celtic world, and the majority of Celtic culture as the world knows it today is old Insular culture. So the Irish are truly ancestrally Celtic in one way, just not quite from the Celts; but who is? On the contrary I think not speaking the language is the most confronting thing to any sense of Celticness. When I hear Gaelic/Welsh spoken it's so foreign to me that it might as well be Greek, that alone is how I know I'm not Celtic, plus all the associated customs/traditions I don't follow. On the other hand I know that most of my ancestors 2000 years ago spoke those languages and had those customs, ipso facto Celtic people.

Regardless, there is far, far too much discussion of these ancient ethno-linguistic categories that are irrelevant today, and I get bored of discussing it. The Irish are Irish, the English are English, Scots are Scottish etc etc, not much more in reality.

Yes of course English are English and Irish are Irish but it is fascinating to me to know how much Celtic, Norman or Anglo-Saxon etc genetically a population is. I do agree that what people think of as Celtic is actually Insular Celtic. I've commented previously about this. Some of the things that the Irish did does not mean that Celts did that in Europe thousands of years ago. I would also like now for what is Irish to be acknowledged as Irish and not called Celtic so that people don't assume some of these customs are pan-Celtic when they are not.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Irish won't be the most Celtic genetically. It has to be separated whether this is genetically or culturally. Culturally the Irish are Celtic but genetically not the most. It looks like the English and Welsh might be more Celtic genetically going by this study coming out.



The Celts most probably emerged out of Tumulus culture and before that Unetice. I think Gauls were undoubtedly Celts. I would love a big study on this.

As sad as it is for many people and it might be difficult for some people to get their head around it but the Insular Celts of which I am one are not really very Celtic genetically. There is some Continental Celtic input which I want to know more about but it is the Southern English that have the most of this. The Irish most likely got some of the Continental Celtic input from Britain. Would some Continental Celtic input be direct from Europe? I have my doubts and I think any came in via Britain.

When I first starting looking at genetics I had to put to rest "the Irish are Celts". I think the Irish themselves are not too bothered about this and I've seen articles in the Irish papers about genetics but I think some other people have very ingrained ideas about this topic. I think anyone that has a good handle on genetics is more up-to-speed with these topics.

We don't know the most genetically Celtic population in the World yet but it won't be the Insular Celts.

Saint Patrick wasn't Irish. "Danny Boy's" lyrics were written by an English person. "Galway Girl" was written by an American. Corned beef and cabbage is an American meal.

"Dixie" was composed by a Yankee. Gospel music and rap might have Scottish roots. Hamburgers, as well as hot dogs, have their origins in Germany. The Christmas tree does too.

Pepperoni pizza started in America. Lasagna was Greek, and spaghetti was Arabic. "Ulster Scottish" Daniel Boone was really English and Welsh. Jack Dempsey's roots were in Appalachia, not New York City.

This Celtic disappointment is just like the above. I'll have to replace "Celtic" with "Briton and Gaelic", and I'm likely not even close to half Anglo. My main disillusionment was when I discovered that one of my favorite recipes was created by my dad, not my mom. That one *really* rocked my world!

[SineNomine]

I'd say the Bavarians are probably as "Celtic" than a lot of the people who are linguistically Celtic today.

[Septentrion]

They are basically the same, on average, but there is a large spread. The difference really isn't even that big between the Welsh and Scottish and English on average :

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10408

^ I wish there was a British isles calculator for that. G25 might have the samples but it might not be the same scale and G25 does not have enough regional samples and Davidski probably inconveniently labelled the Saxon samples.

So, one can use the Iron Age England samples for 'Celtic' and the pure Anglo-Saxon samples (basically Dutch and Danish) as Germanic. Wales and Scotland are on average 30% Angle-Saxon , with a large spread, and East England is on average 38% Angle-Saxon with a large spread.

I have been told I can pass in Wales/Cornwall/Devonshire by XenophobicPrussian (from what I can gather he seems correct) and I would guess I'm anywhere from 34% to about 36% Angle-Saxon but I'm not sure.

I would think you should be a little more careful when making that statement. On autosomal level, British are similar due to the fact that the Germanic invaders couldn’t have been as numerous as the indigenous Brythonic people and the vast majority of these mercenaries were usually men. As in every invading story, the soldiers took most likely Celtic or local wives. So the difference would lie more in the proportion of the Y-DNA passed on the Germanic warriors who literally took over and created a nation which eventually became England as we know it.

[Septentrion]

Saint Patrick wasn't Irish. "Danny Boy's" lyrics were written by an English person. "Galway Girl" was written by an American. Corned beef and cabbage is an American meal.

"Dixie" was composed by a Yankee. Gospel music and rap might have Scottish roots. Hamburgers, as well as hot dogs, have their origins in Germany. The Christmas tree does too.

Pepperoni pizza started in America. Lasagna was Greek, and spaghetti was Arabic. "Ulster Scottish" Daniel Boone was really English and Welsh. Jack Dempsey's roots were in Appalachia, not New York City.

This Celtic disappointment is just like the above. I'll have to replace "Celtic" with "Briton and Gaelic", and I'm likely not even close to half Anglo. My main disillusionment was when I discovered that one of my favorite recipes was created by my dad, not my mom. That one *really* rocked my world!

On autosomal level, the East English are 40%, the Welsh and Scottish are 30% Anglo - Saxon. This firstly a sign to show as a whole due to Anglo - Saxon invasion, the British are no more 90% - 100% Celtic. They all have Germanic admixture, including the Welsh whom people didn’t expect to be that Germanic. However on the Y - DNA level, the English depending on counties run a 55% - 65% range on average. While the Welsh round about 25%.

[Jingle Bell]

The most Celtic ppl are Modern Central/North Frenchs, after Iberia/Alpine Europe after British Isles.
Mostly Bristish are natives Pre-Celts who were celtized, the original Celts (Looking at La Tene, Hallsttat and at Gauls and Bealgae) were ~40% Yamnaya ~15% WHG ~40% Barcin, were prob SW/Central European looking (mostly Meds, Alpines, minor Nordic and Dinaric), its kinda hard calculate how much exactly ( Bcs depending on sample the results change a lot, and sometimes the closer result isnt the right) but using Averages of some Celtic samples we can have a decent result i guess:


Celt_Average_Gauls_Hallsttat_La-Tene,0.12691275,0.143824375,0.0545174375,0.0299380 625,0.041430625,0.006902625,-0.0001028125,0.004023875,0.0120285,0.0164014375,-0.0039885625,0.0045334375,-0.0143086875,-0.00697575,0.0117653125,0.0000828125,-0.0059814375,0.002692125,0.004509375,0.0028373125,-0.001029375,0.0028903125,-0.0019411875,-0.0039688125,0.0009955

[Vhugg]

The most Celtic ppl are Modern Central/North Frenchs, after Iberia/Alpine Europe after British Isles.

No way. The most Celtic areas are where Celtic languages are still spoken to this day.

Mostly Bristish are natives Pre-Celts who were celtized, the original Celts (Looking at La Tene, Hallsttat and at Gauls and Bealgae) were ~40% Yamnaya ~15% WHG ~40% Barcin, were prob SW/Central European looking (mostly Meds, Alpines, minor Nordic and Dinaric), its kinda hard calculate how much exactly ( Bcs depending on sample the results change a lot, and sometimes the closer result isnt the right) but using Averages of some Celtic samples we can have a decent result i guess:


Celt_Average_Gauls_Hallsttat_La-Tene,0.12691275,0.143824375,0.0545174375,0.0299380 625,0.041430625,0.006902625,-0.0001028125,0.004023875,0.0120285,0.0164014375,-0.0039885625,0.0045334375,-0.0143086875,-0.00697575,0.0117653125,0.0000828125,-0.0059814375,0.002692125,0.004509375,0.0028373125,-0.001029375,0.0028903125,-0.0019411875,-0.0039688125,0.0009955

The prehistoric inhabitants of the British Isles were almost completely wiped out by the incoming Celts. If anything Insular Celts are the most pure while Continental Celts were admixed.

[Jingle Bell]

No way. The most Celtic areas are where Celtic languages are still spoken to this day.



The prehistoric inhabitants of the British Isles were almost completely wiped out by the incoming Celts. If anything Insular Celts are the most pure while Continental Celts were admixed.

What????
Mostly ancestry in Uk is from Bell Beakers, who were celtized culturally and got some intermix, the Celts were a small Elite who dominate the Islands, like the Goth dominates the Iberia but mostly Iberiains dont have more than 5% of Gothic dna. . . .
Speaks a language dont means nothing, aframs speaks english but this dont make they English genetically. . . .
While in areas like France and Iberia occour the REPLACEMANT of the native population by celts, in French this was nearly total while in Iberia in less quantity but still a lot
Red this: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05247-2

[Jingle Bell]

No way. The most Celtic areas are where Celtic languages are still spoken to this day.



The prehistoric inhabitants of the British Isles were almost completely wiped out by the incoming Celts. If anything Insular Celts are the most pure while Continental Celts were admixed.

How C Celts were admixed???? The Celts was borned in La Tene, a continental culture . . . .