Macedonian Gedmatch kits and their placement on the map

[Dianatomia]

First of all, in this study of 2015, there is no mentioning where from they got the samples for the Macedonians and how many samples did they get!

Second, in the study, there is no mentioning what cluster does Macedonians form and with who, all it says is this:

Well, I am not sure I understand the reason for your objection since the study you posted corresponds to the study I posted (see bracket A). Some Macedonian Slavs cluster close to Northern Greeks and Kosovars (Gheghs), while many Macedonian Slavs (as well as Romanians and Bulgarians) also overlap with Serbs and Montenegrins. However, no Greek or Ghegh population overlaps with Serbs and Montenegrins (Northern Greeks included). Hence I would not put Northern Greeks in the same cluster as Romanians, Bulgarians or Macedonian Slavs. Rather, if one insists, I would argue that some Macedonian Slavs fall into a seperate cluster with Macedonian Greeks and Thracian Greeks, which as a whole is intermediate between the South Slavic and Greek cluster.

[Aspar]

Well, I am not sure I understand the reason for your objection since the study you posted corresponds to the study I posted (see bracket A). Some Macedonian Slavs cluster close to Northern Greeks and Kosovars (Gheghs), while many Macedonian Slavs (as well as Romanians and Bulgarians) also overlap with Serbs and Montenegrins. However, no Greek or Ghegh population overlaps with Serbs and Montenegrins (Northern Greeks included). Hence I would not put Northern Greeks in the same cluster as Romanians, Bulgarians or Macedonian Slavs. Rather, if one insists, I would argue that some Macedonian Slavs fall into a seperate cluster with Macedonian Greeks and Thracian Greeks, which as a whole is intermediate between the South Slavic and Greek cluster.

Well in that case we can not speak of one cluster when clustering the ethnic Macedonians as some are close to some Northern Greeks as you've said, others are in a same cluster with Bulgarians or Southern Romanians.
There are some who even end up in a cluster with Montenegrins or Southern Serbs.
So yeah, there is variation as everywhere...
But most importantly, there is an incline from south to north rather than a genetic barrier between the Greek speaking populations and the Slavic speaking populations of Macedonia as it was confirmed in Bosh's study of 2005 and that the Aromanians of Albania and Macedonia, the Albanians, the ethnic Macedonians and the Greeks from Thrace are all closely connected and share similar ancestry!

[Ibericus]

DO you have the K15 average of all these kits ?

[Aspar]

DO you have the K15 average of all these kits ?

No, I haven't done an average.
The kits are still available so you have free hands to do whatever you wish.

[Dianatomia]

Well in that case we can not speak of one cluster when clustering the ethnic Macedonians as some are close to some Northern Greeks as you've said, others are in a same cluster with Bulgarians or Southern Romanians.
There are some who even end up in a cluster with Montenegrins or Southern Serbs.
So yeah, there is variation as everywhere...

But Romanians and Bulgarians overall do overlap with Macedonian Slavs. In the sense that they do have more or less the same genetic variety (although Macedonian Slavs are the only ones which partly overlap with a Greek and/or Ghegh population. So if these Macedonian Slavic outliers are all from a certain region (i.e. Vitola, or Greek Macedonia), I would make a case to cluster the people from those regions seperately with Northern Greeks. But if it's just arbitrary, then I would still argue that Macedonian Slavs form a cluster with Bulgarians and Romanians. And I would put Northern Greeks betweem them and other Greeks.

From personal experience I have visited Skopje right after having visited Thessaloniki for several days and I clearly noticed a difference in the overall physical appearance of the people. But I have seen Macedonian Slavs who would fit well in Greece. Anywhere in Greece.

[Crn Volk]

But Romanians and Bulgarians overall do overlap with Macedonian Slavs. In the sense that they do have more or less the same genetic variety (although Macedonian Slavs are the only ones which partly overlap with a Greek and/or Ghegh population. So if these Macedonian Slavic outliers are all from a certain region (i.e. Vitola, or Greek Macedonia), I would make a case to cluster the people from those regions seperately with Northern Greeks. But if it's just arbitrary, then I would still argue that Macedonian Slavs form a cluster with Bulgarians and Romanians. And I would put Northern Greeks betweem them and other Greeks.

From personal experience I have visited Skopje right after having visited Thessaloniki for several days and I clearly noticed a difference in the overall physical appearance of the people. But I have seen Macedonian Slavs who would fit well in Greece. Anywhere in Greece.

Well of course there’s a difference. Any ideas on the number of 1920s refugees who settled in Salonica?

[Dianatomia]

Well of course there’s a difference. Any ideas on the number of 1920s refugees who settled in Salonica?

A lot of them. But the point still remains that no Greek Macedonian clusters with Serbs or Montenegrins. Besides, the refugees would typically cluster with islanders. Native people from Greek Macedonian villages resemble Thessalians. Although, I am not sure about the border area's.

[Crn Volk]

A lot of them. But the point still remains that no Greek Macedonian clusters with Serbs or Montenegrins. Besides, the refugees would typically cluster with islanders. Native people from Greek Macedonian villages resemble Thessalians. Although, I am not sure about the border area's.

Yeah it’s the border areas we refer to ie the Slavophone regions.

[Vojnik]

Edit

[catgeorge]

Well of course there’s a difference. Any ideas on the number of 1920s refugees who settled in Salonica?

350.000 from Thrace mostly from Adrianople, Phillipoplis, Burgas and Varna
300,000 from Anatolia (Constantinople and Smyrna make most of the numbers)
260,000 from Pontus
50,000 from Caucasus mostly Armenians and Georgians
15,000 from Ukraine (Greek families that volunteered to come to Greece)