Religion aside, is all of Ireland culturally homogeneous?

[The Lawspeaker]

It's also the impression on the Continent that Ulster is an economic black hole. But that's maybe a more antiquated view (the 1970s to 1990s). Scotland, Wales and Northern England were (are ?) also lagging behind in development. I can remember that most people were quite surprised with Ireland's meteoric rise during the 1990s and 2000s.

[Loki]

It's also the impression on the Continent that Ulster is an economic black hole. But that's maybe a more antiquated view (the 1970s to 1990s). Scotland, Wales and Northern England were (are ?) also lagging behind in development. I can remember that most people were quite surprised with Ireland's meteoric rise during the 1990s and 2000s.

No, that's a total wrong impression, and that was because of the Troubles -- which are over. Plus, we are not now comparing NI to the rest of the UK, but to Ireland. Belfast has always been one of the industrial hotpoints in the UK, for example the Titanic was built in Belfast, not in Dublin..

Belfast was always richer than Dublin.

But wealth aside... the most important consideration is demographical: the Republic of Ireland is overrun with non-white third world immigrants! By contrast, Northern Ireland is the most white part of the United Kingdom... now show me a better incentive to stay separate, please!

[The Lawspeaker]

No, that's a total wrong impression, and that was because of the Troubles -- which are over. Plus, we are not now comparing NI to the rest of the UK, but to Ireland. Belfast has always been one of the industrial hotpoints in the UK, for example the Titanic was built in Belfast, not in Dublin..

Belfast was always richer than Dublin.

But wealth aside... the most important consideration is demographical: the Republic of Ireland is overrun with non-white third world immigrants! By contrast, Northern Ireland is the most white part of the United Kingdom... now show me a better incentive to stay separate, please!

My impressions are, of course, dated. I don't know about the present situation but they're no peace walls running through Dublin...

[Óttar]

Protestants and Catholics share common musical melodies (I've heard Protestant folk-songs using the exact same tunes as Irish Republican rebel songs), several Protestants were instrumental in the fight for Irish independence beginning with the United Irishmen in 1798, including Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmet, and Charles Parnell. Irish Protestants also supported the revival and proliferation of Irish Gaelic. Even the Protestant identification with their 'British' heritage comes off as anachronistic and artificial, it is as if they are stuck in a time warp. The rest of the British Isles moved on long ago.

[Loki]

My impressions are, of course, dated. I don't know about the present situation but they're no peace walls running through Dublin...

Well of course we had the Troubles period here of sectarian violence... basically war. It was a terrible time for NI, of course, and its effects are still felt in many ways. I am not disputing that. What I am saying is that Northern Ireland has always been the most industrialized part of Ireland. And the recent "blossoming" of the Irish Republic is solely due to financial bailouts by the European Union, IMF and also the UK. It is built on a whole lot of debt. Of course this has led to inflow of money, and at least temporarily, it causes the economy to boom. But don't be fooled by looking at recent numbers and GDP figures in isolation. Any economist worth his salt will tell you that one needs to consider the underlying situation and condition.

Northern Ireland may be somewhat "forgotten" recently by the UK. But the place is quite independent actually, and governs itself -- even though they haven't had an effective government for over a year now due to disagreements. Brexit is somewhat of a worry, because people in Northern Ireland absolutely do not want to become part of the Irish Republic. Non-negotiable. But at the same time, there is no support for a solid border either, because there is more and more economic interaction between the north and south, which would be affected.

[Loki]

Even the Protestant identification with their 'British' heritage comes off as anachronistic and artificial, it is as if they are stuck in a time warp. The rest of the British Isles moved on long ago.

If by "moved on long ago" you mean having become more mixed-race, multiculturalist... then you're right. But I think Northern Ireland's vision of Britain is the right one, the healthy one that has stood the test of time. Multiculturalism has not, and won't.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well of course we had the Troubles period here of sectarian violence... basically war. It was a terrible time for NI, of course, and its effects are still felt in many ways. I am not disputing that. What I am saying is that Northern Ireland has always been the most industrialized part of Ireland. And the recent "blossoming" of the Irish Republic is solely due to financial bailouts by the European Union, IMF and also the UK. It is built on a whole lot of debt. Of course this has led to inflow of money, and at least temporarily, it causes the economy to boom. But don't be fooled by looking at recent numbers and GDP figures in isolation. Any economist worth his salt will tell you that one needs to consider the underlying situation and condition.

Northern Ireland may be somewhat "forgotten" recently by the UK. But the place is quite independent actually, and governs itself -- even though they haven't had an effective government for over a year now due to disagreements. Brexit is somewhat of a worry, because people in Northern Ireland absolutely do not want to become part of the Irish Republic. Non-negotiable. But at the same time, there is no support for a solid border either, because there is more and more economic interaction between the north and south, which would be affected.

So then what ? Independence ? They seem to pose a problem on the route to Brexit and they could leave on their own accord and set up a separate border treaty with the Republic ?

[Dragoon]

Maybe. I don't know if Northern Ireland even wants to unify though.

what Republic of Ireland says...
Yes – would like to see a united Ireland in my lifetime 66%


what Northern Ireland says...
June 2018 Lord Ashcroft 44% (yes ) 49% (no) 7% 5%
September 2018 OFOC 52% (yes) 39% (no) 9% 13%

In fact every year the numbers are increasing.

Protestants merging with those "nasty" Catholics how scary lol.

[Loki]

So then what ? Independence ? They seem to pose a problem on the route to Brexit and they could leave on their own accord and set up a separate border treaty with the Republic ?

I don't know... it's a tricky situation, and if there was an easy answer they would have found it already...

I don't think they will be able to please everyone. It's not possible. Someone is going to be disappointed, soon..

[Loki]

what Republic of Ireland says...
Yes – would like to see a united Ireland in my lifetime 66%


what Northern Ireland says...
June 2018 Lord Ashcroft 44% (yes ) 49% (no) 7% 5%
September 2018 OFOC 52% (yes) 39% (no) 9% 13%

In fact every year the numbers are increasing.

Protestants merging with those "nasty" Catholics how scary lol.

That's too big a variance in too short a time to be realistic... I wouldn't pay too much attention to those numbers. I also wouldn't trust them.