Are Krajina Serbs really Vlachs?

[Varda]

Origin of Croatian fantasy about Vlach origin of Krajina Serbs is in Ante Starčević https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ante_Starčević
Ante Starčević "father" of Croatian nation is born in Lika of Bunjevac father and Serbian Orthodox mother. First he was pro-Serbian oriented. But when he didn't get a job as a math teacher in one school in Belgrade because he was not qualified as a math teacher, he started to hate Serbs and turned to Croatian chauvinist. Ante Starčević at an earlier stage claimed Serbs west of Drina river are mix of Croatians and Balkan Romance people (not Vlachs), also he claimed Serbian history like Kosovo was Croatian, Serbian dynasty Nemanjić was Croatian, Serbian national hero Miloš Obilić was Croatian etc. He claimed western Serbs are mix of Croatians and Romance people because he had a goal of catholization and croatization of western Serbs. He wanted to convince Serbs from present day Croatia and BiH that they are not real Serbs whose ancestors converted to Orthodoxy from Catholicism. Starčević claim of Romance origin of large part of western Serbs is for the goal of their catholization, he considered it's natural that Romance people are Catholics and it will be easier for western Serbs to become Catholics if they believe in Romance and Croatian) origin.
Later Ante Starčević started to claim Vlach (not Romance, but Vlach) origin of western Serbs, and consider them subhumans "ripe for the ax" (for genocide).
Starčević was for sure mentally ill maniac, but for Croatians he is "father" or nation and one of the most important figures in Croatian history.

[Varda]

Venetian cadaste from 1709, Orthodox villages Žegar and Bilišane in northern Dalmatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Žegar,_Croatia
https://bs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilišane

ŽEGAR (VILLA DI ZEGAR): Damian Sanader, Gruisa Nanich, Illia Ivansevich, Luca Sanader, Milach Babich, Milivoi Ivansevich, Milia Ivansevich, Milich Bililovich, Milos Sanader, Marco Prodanovich, Nicolo Iaich, Nicolo Babich, Perco Zelich, Rodoiza Ivansevich, Radoisa Mirilovich, Radivoi Gusalovich, Radisa Gusalovich, Radosa Garich, Radosa Stipanovich, Stoian Ivansevich, Sava Doich, Stanco Gusalovich, Tadia Bulanlovich, Vucich Oluich, Vuisa Iaich, Vucich Radmilovich, Vuco Prodanovich, Vusco Lubisich, Vucen Sanader, Vucosa Lonzarovich, Vido Sanader, Zuane Iasnich, Zuane Milinovich, Zuane Lubisich...

BILIŠANE (VILLA DI BELISAN): Dragosava Oluich, Dragosava Paravinich, Filippo Buglievich, Gruiza Ignatovich, Iovan Glugletich, Iovan Mulin, Iovan Paravigna, Masime Diacovich, Masime Ignatovich, Manolo Oluich, Manolo Paravigna, Maxime Paravigna, Piero Oluich, Paulo Paravigna, Radoiza Balcovich, Radan Ignatovich, Radoiza Ignatovich, Radovan Molin, Radoiza Pupovaz, Stipan Birbir, Sava Calinich, Secola Devich, Stipan Ignatovich, Stoian Obrich, Stanisa Pupovaz, Todor Paravigna, Vuco Danilovich, Vuiza Ignatovich, Vucich Oluich, Vucen Pupovaz, Stio Predovich, Iovan Repaz, Mircetta Erzegovaz, Vuina Ignatovich...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kCz...x2KJWxpYs/view

[Varda]

Venetian cadaste from 1709, Orthodox villages Žegar and Bilišane in northern Dalmatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Žegar,_Croatia
https://bs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilišane

ŽEGAR (VILLA DI ZEGAR): Damian Sanader, Gruisa Nanich, Illia Ivansevich, Luca Sanader, Milach Babich, Milivoi Ivansevich, Milia Ivansevich, Milich Bililovich, Milos Sanader, Marco Prodanovich, Nicolo Iaich, Nicolo Babich, Perco Zelich, Rodoiza Ivansevich, Radoisa Mirilovich, Radivoi Gusalovich, Radisa Gusalovich, Radosa Garich, Radosa Stipanovich, Stoian Ivansevich, Sava Doich, Stanco Gusalovich, Tadia Bulanlovich, Vucich Oluich, Vuisa Iaich, Vucich Radmilovich, Vuco Prodanovich, Vusco Lubisich, Vucen Sanader, Vucosa Lonzarovich, Vido Sanader, Zuane Iasnich, Zuane Milinovich, Zuane Lubisich...

BILIŠANE (VILLA DI BELISAN): Dragosava Oluich, Dragosava Paravinich, Filippo Buglievich, Gruiza Ignatovich, Iovan Glugletich, Iovan Mulin, Iovan Paravigna, Masime Diacovich, Masime Ignatovich, Manolo Oluich, Manolo Paravigna, Maxime Paravigna, Piero Oluich, Paulo Paravigna, Radoiza Balcovich, Radan Ignatovich, Radoiza Ignatovich, Radovan Molin, Radoiza Pupovaz, Stipan Birbir, Sava Calinich, Secola Devich, Stipan Ignatovich, Stoian Obrich, Stanisa Pupovaz, Todor Paravigna, Vuco Danilovich, Vuiza Ignatovich, Vucich Oluich, Vucen Pupovaz, Stio Predovich, Iovan Repaz, Mircetta Erzegovaz, Vuina Ignatovich...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kCz...x2KJWxpYs/view

In 1709. in Žegar as Orthodoxes are recorded Damjan Sanader, Luka Sanader, Miloš Sanader, Vučen Sanader and Vido Sanader, and in Bilišane Radojica Pupovac, Staniša Pupovac and Vučen Pupovac (Žegar and Bilišane are 10 km away).
What a irony of destiny - Ivo Sanader is former Croatian prime minister and Milorad Pupovac is most prominent Serbian politician in Croatia, they were in coalition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivo_Sanader
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milorad_Pupovac

Sanader is predominantly Krajina Serb surname.

[Varda]

I posted vast majority of names/surnames for Žegar and Bilišane, except few which are difficult to read.
Origin of names:
- Žegar: 21 of Slavic origin (Serbian folk names) / 13 of Biblical/Christian origin
- Bilišane: 16 of Slavic origin (Serbian folk names) / 16 of Biblical/Christian origin / 1 of other origin / 1 of unknown origin


Here is for Orthodox village Ivoševci (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivoševci) from same census (RISTRETTO DI IVOSEVZ), all names/surnames except two : Bogodan Tismich, Filipo Sfilocos, Gavrilo Popovich, Gavrilo Garganaich, Lazo Licem, Luca Varisich, Detto Varisich, Luca Carnaich, Miat Corolich, Milac Corolich, Manollo Predovich, Milovan Tismich, Miailo Mudrinich, Mirco Pudunavaz, Milos Trifonovich, Milsava Rosmirovich, Miailo Vuiasinovich, Marco Stupar, Milovan Draganich, Marco Raisich, Novach Tismich, Nicolo Opasich, Nadal Dumich, Novach Liuboevich, Radovan Tismich, Radovan Carnaich, Radumir Vurunica, Radosa Vuiasinovich, Radosava Nicolich, Radivoi Polvinich, Ranco Radisich, Stoiach Vuiasinovich, Tomaso Corolich, Vasilio Relich, Vucen Relich, Vuien Cargnaich, Vuco Milinovich, Vucadin Bargnaich, Vuisa Gargnaich, Zuane Tismich, Zorzi Dracetich, Zuane Liubocuich, Zuane Pocrocaz.

22 names of Slavic origin (Serbian folk names), 19 of Biblical/Christian origin, and 2 names of unknown origin.

[Varda]

Many Serbian surnames from northern Dalmatia which today are without typical Serbian suffix IĆ, in the first half of 18th century had IĆ. Later they lost IĆ and mostly became shorter.

Examples of Serbian surnames from northern Dalmatia which are in the first half of 18th century recorded with IĆ and today are without IĆ: Parentić (today Parenta), Kožulović (today Kožul), Karanović (today Karan), Šušković (today Šušak), Ljevajić (today Ljevaja), Zoričić (today Zorica), Stilić (today Stjelja), Arčabić (Arčaba), Tepšić (Tepša), Radaković (Radak), Ležajić (Ležaja), Duporović (Dupor), Šušić (Šuša), Ćosić (Ćoso), Dubrojević (Dubroja), Ivanišević (Ivaniš), Stegnjajić (Stegnjaja), Vukšuć (Vukša), Tampaljić (Tampolja), Baljković (Baljak), Mrkeljić (Mrkela), Piljić (Pilja), Crnobrnić (Crnobrnja), Milijašević (Milijaš), Drčić (Drča), Krnetić (Krneta), Macurović (Macura), Tišmić (Tišma), Korolić (Korolija), Dražetić (Dražeta), Mirilović (Mirilo), Gruborović (Grubor), Lončarović (Lončar)...

[CommonSense]

Many Serbian surnames from northern Dalmatia which today are without typical Serbian suffix IĆ, in the first half of 18th century had IĆ. Later they lost IĆ and mostly became shorter.

Examples of Serbian surnames from northern Dalmatia which are in the first half of 18th century recorded with IĆ and today are without IĆ: Parentić (today Parenta), Kožulović (today Kožul), Karanović (today Karan), Šušković (today Šušak), Ljevajić (today Ljevaja), Zoričić (today Zorica), Stilić (today Stjelja), Arčabić (Arčaba), Tepšić (Tepša), Radaković (Radak), Ležajić (Ležaja), Duporović (Dupor), Šušić (Šuša), Ćosić (Ćoso), Dubrojević (Dubroja), Ivanišević (Ivaniš), Stegnjajić (Stegnjaja), Vukšuć (Vukša), Tampaljić (Tampolja), Baljković (Baljak), Mrkeljić (Mrkela), Piljić (Pilja), Crnobrnić (Crnobrnja), Milijašević (Milijaš), Drčić (Drča), Krnetić (Krneta), Macurović (Macura), Tišmić (Tišma), Korolić (Korolija), Dražetić (Dražeta), Mirilović (Mirilo), Gruborović (Grubor), Lončarović (Lončar)...

Really ironic considering how many dumb Bosniaks I've seen claim how Serbs kept adding the suffix -ić to people's surnames and that it was one of the main reasons all of them got serbianized

[Varda]

Really ironic considering how many dumb Bosniaks I've seen claim how Serbs kept adding the suffix -ić to people's surnames and that it was one of the main reasons all of them got serbianized

Once i saw claim of some Bosniak on one forum that Serbian and Croatian surnames which end with A are of Vlach origin.
As you can see in my previous post some of Dalmatian Serb surnames which had suffix IĆ around 300 years ago today have A at the end.

I didn't mention up present day Serbian surnames Gugleta from Bilišane and Krnjaja from Žegar. Family Gugleta in 1709. in Bilišane is recorded as Glugletić (Iovan Glugletich, Iancho Glugletich, Radisa Glugletich, Stanisa Glugletich), and Krnjaja are recorded in Ivoševci as Krnjajić (Gavrilo Cargnaich, Luca Carnaic, Radovan Carnaich, Vuien Cargnaich, Vuisa Cargnaich).
Krnjajić оr today Krnjaja (Cargnaich/Carnaich) are not recorded in Žegar in 1709, and this means they moved to Žegar from Ivoševci later. Krnjaja from Žegar is tested as I2-PH908 via Serbian dna project, so they never were Vlachs by paternal line.

[Varda]

Venetian cadaste from 1709, Orthodox villages Žegar and Bilišane in northern Dalmatia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Žegar,_Croatia
https://bs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilišane

ŽEGAR (VILLA DI ZEGAR): Damian Sanader, Gruisa Nanich, Illia Ivansevich, Luca Sanader, Milach Babich, Milivoi Ivansevich, Milia Ivansevich, Milich Bililovich, Milos Sanader, Marco Prodanovich, Nicolo Iaich, Nicolo Babich, Perco Zelich, Rodoiza Ivansevich, Radoisa Mirilovich, Radivoi Gusalovich, Radisa Gusalovich, Radosa Garich, Radosa Stipanovich, Stoian Ivansevich, Sava Doich, Stanco Gusalovich, Tadia Bulanlovich, Vucich Oluich, Vuisa Iaich, Vucich Radmilovich, Vuco Prodanovich, Vusco Lubisich, Vucen Sanader, Vucosa Lonzarovich, Vido Sanader, Zuane Iasnich, Zuane Milinovich, Zuane Lubisich...

BILIŠANE (VILLA DI BELISAN): Dragosava Oluich, Dragosava Paravinich, Filippo Buglievich, Gruiza Ignatovich, Iovan Glugletich, Iovan Mulin, Iovan Paravigna, Masime Diacovich, Masime Ignatovich, Manolo Oluich, Manolo Paravigna, Maxime Paravigna, Piero Oluich, Paulo Paravigna, Radoiza Balcovich, Radan Ignatovich, Radoiza Ignatovich, Radovan Molin, Radoiza Pupovaz, Stipan Birbir, Sava Calinich, Secola Devich, Stipan Ignatovich, Stoian Obrich, Stanisa Pupovaz, Todor Paravigna, Vuco Danilovich, Vuiza Ignatovich, Vucich Oluich, Vucen Pupovaz, Stio Predovich, Iovan Repaz, Mircetta Erzegovaz, Vuina Ignatovich...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kCz...x2KJWxpYs/view

I missed Dobrasa Cusucovich son of Osman from Žegar, he obviously was backward Muslim who converted on Orthodoxy. Muslims are expelled from northern Dalmatia to Bosnia in the late 17th century, few who stayed converted to Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

[Varda]

This is for Serbian speakers. According to linguistic research speech of Lika Serbs is most similar to central Herzegovinian dialect around Neretva river (more similar than to east Herzegovinian).

My mother say she meet only two persons in her life who are not from our region (northern Dalmatia) and for which she thought they are from our region according to speech and both were from Mostar.

[Varda]

Moravian male traditional hats are very similar to Krajina Serb ones.

Maravian




Krajina Serb