Macedonia will hold a census in 2020, but without questions about ethnicity or religion

[Crn Volk]

http://english.republika.mk/macedoni...s-orientation/

[Jacksons]

It is ridiculous to have a census without the 2 main questions of ethnicity and religion. The only reason the Macedonian state would do this is because they know Albanians are over the 33% in Republic in Macedonia.

I also find it very odd that the article states as the reason for the census in 2011 failing is because of Albanians demand to include the diaspora. This is nonsense. The census was partially made and was abruptly stopped by Gruevski. Gruevski wanted nothing more than to show that Albanians were less than 20%. If this were true then he would have broken every rule and law in the books to make sure the census went through. However, as Albanian circles have stated, the census showed a clear plurality of Albanians in Macedonia. While the Macedonians were split among Bulgarians, Serbians, and Roma communities whom often declare themselves as Macedonians on census. Making Albanian the plurality ethnicity in Macedonia.

This is why Gruevski stopped the census.

[Ayetooey]

Albanians must be over a 3rd of the population at this point, will probably have a majority by 2040.

[Jacksons]

Albanians must be over a 3rd of the population at this point, will probably have a majority by 2040.

Albanians are over 1/3 for 3 reasons

Albanians natural population increase is larger than the Macedonians one
Orthodox Albanians are increasingly identifying as Albanians in real life and in censuses. This includes the mythical Turks as well as Torbesh communities whom are increasingly identifying themselves as Albanians on censuses.
Macedonian population is split along Bulgarian and Macedonian one.

Emigration has affected all communities equally so I see no reasoning here to think it affects one population more than the other.

[Ayetooey]

Albanians are over 1/3 for 3 reasons

Albanians natural population increase is larger than the Macedonians one
Orthodox Albanians are increasingly identifying as Albanians in real life and in censuses. This includes the mythical Turks as well as Torbesh communities whom are increasingly identifying themselves as Albanians on censuses.
Macedonian population is split along Bulgarian and Macedonian one.

Emigration has affected all communities equally so I see no reasoning here to think it affects one population more than the other.

According to Pew Macedonia will be an Islamic majority nation by 2050.

http://www.globalreligiousfutures.or...ions_year=2050

[Crn Volk]

It is ridiculous to have a census without the 2 main questions of ethnicity and religion. The only reason the Macedonian state would do this is because they know Albanians are over the 33% in Republic in Macedonia.

I also find it very odd that the article states as the reason for the census in 2011 failing is because of Albanians demand to include the diaspora. This is nonsense. The census was partially made and was abruptly stopped by Gruevski. Gruevski wanted nothing more than to show that Albanians were less than 20%. If this were true then he would have broken every rule and law in the books to make sure the census went through. However, as Albanian circles have stated, the census showed a clear plurality of Albanians in Macedonia. While the Macedonians were split among Bulgarians, Serbians, and Roma communities whom often declare themselves as Macedonians on census. Making Albanian the plurality ethnicity in Macedonia.

This is why Gruevski stopped the census.

The census was stopped because Ali Ahmeti insisted on counting Albanians living outside the country as residents of Macedonia. Gruevski disagreed with this (correctly so), and to preserve their governing coalition, they agreed to disagree and stop the census.

I think not counting ethnicities is a good move and mirrors what Greece does.

[Crn Volk]

Albanians are over 1/3 for 3 reasons

Albanians natural population increase is larger than the Macedonians one
Orthodox Albanians are increasingly identifying as Albanians in real life and in censuses. This includes the mythical Turks as well as Torbesh communities whom are increasingly identifying themselves as Albanians on censuses.
Macedonian population is split along Bulgarian and Macedonian one.

Emigration has affected all communities equally so I see no reasoning here to think it affects one population more than the other.

Macedonian-Albanians live in countries like Switzerland and Belgium. They should be counted in those countries census's, not Macedonia's.

[Jacksons]

The census was stopped because Ali Ahmeti insisted on counting Albanians living outside the country as residents of Macedonia. Gruevski disagreed with this (correctly so), and to preserve their governing coalition, they agreed to disagree and stop the census.

I think not counting ethnicities is a good move and mirrors what Greece does.

Oh please. That is a load of bullcrap. Minority parties will always object censuses. It is natural because the dominant party will always try to manipulate it. It is ridiculous to blame this on Albanians. This was a full failure on Gruevski and his nationalist tendencies as in the ground where censuses were made, Macedonians were a minority in Macedonia and Albanians were showing to hold plurality. Gruevski adopted so many anti-Albanian programs whom Ali Ahmeti stood by and did not break the coalition. I find it ridiculous that the coalition would have been broken for making a census.

As we all know, Gruevski the nationalist, wants nothing more than to show Albanians were less than 20%. The census showed the complete opposite of this and that is why it was abruptly stopped by Gruevski. And not because of some fabled demands.

[Jacksons]

Macedonian-Albanians live in countries like Switzerland and Belgium. They should be counted in those countries census's, not Macedonia's.

They should be counted as nationals of Macedonia, just like you. Even-though you live in Australia yourself. Just like Swiss nationals are counted as Swiss nationals where ever they live. Stop using Gruevski's failed nationalist logic. Dear God, you're raised in the West.

The article
Macedonia will hold a census in 2020, but without questions about ethnicity and religious orientation

Apostol Simovski, head of the State Statistics Bureau, informed on Tuesday that the Bureau plans to hold the long delayed census in 2020, but that it will not include the thorny questions of ethnicity and religion. The 2011 census was stopped mid-work, due to objections from the parties representing ethnic Albanians, which demanded that it covers citizens who live abroad, in an attempt to maintain the percentage of Albanians above the 20 percent threshold provided in the Ohrid Framework Agreement.

Simovski said that the Bureau will use data provided from a number of state institutions to assist the 5.000 census workers who will be collecting data on the ground, to make a correct list of citizens who actually live in the country. But, data collected from other institutions will be used to make an assessment of citizens who live abroad, which was a key issue which broke the 2011 attempt to hold a census. The last census was held in 2002, and it had ethnic Albanians at 25 percent, above the 20 percent limit needed to activate special minority rights provided in the Ohrid peace treaty. The failure of the 2011 census and the political acrimony which followed it, as well as the estimated high emigration rates and low election day turnouts in majority Albanian areas, fueled comments in the public that the Albanian community may be below the 20 percent margin.

– Data on ethnicity have no value for us and are often being abused for political reasons, and this is why we stand by the decision not to include this information in the census sheets, Simovski said. His earlier announcements that ethnicity will not be among the census questions drew criticism from Macedonian rights activists as well, who complained that without a census determining the number of ethnic Macedonians, neighboring countries who deny the existence or the identity of Macedonians will be emboldened.

Costs for the procedure are estimated at 8,5 million EUR.

[Crn Volk]

They should be counted as nationals of Macedonia, just liek you. Even-though you live in Australia yourself. Just like Swiss nationals are counted as Swiss nationals where ever they live. Stop using Gruevski's failed nationalist logic. Dear God, you're raised in the West.

I am counted in Australia as an Australian of Macedonian ancestry. I am not counted in Macedonia because I don't live there. If you want to be counted in a Macedonian census then you should live there. Census results are used for government planning of services, projects etc., not to mention the private sector. It would be ridiculous to count people who do not reside there. For example, if a town in western Macedonia counts 1,000 people who don't live there, but live in Switzerland, then they will provide for schools, services etc. for people who don't live there and therefore waste money for nothing. Macedonia is a poor country and doesn't have money to waste. Think beyond your narrow-minded quest to inflate Albanian numbers.