Why do Irish plot so closely on GEDMatch with Scandinavians? is it...

[Peterski]

The Irish do have Viking admixture, but it is likely not more than 10% of their overall autosomal composition.

If a White American with 5% of Native American admixture identified as Pocahontas, most of you would find it odd.

But enthusiastic discussions about 5% Visigothic impact in Spain or Viking impact in Ireland are considered normal.

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PS:

I'm just exposing TA hipocrisy, I actually think that 5% is a large enough amount to cherish such heritage. But any heritage with 5% is non-negligible (including Pocahontas - so no surprise that the number of Native Americans has been skyrocketing lately):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...tified-Germans



Some badass identities like Sioux, Apache or Viking are simply popular and won't be submerged.

[Sikeliot]

As I said in another thread, I think Irish plot closer to Scandinavians because they've had very little mixing with Continental populations to dilute their Nordic like Bronze Age ancestry. The English ought to be closer to Scandinavians with their higher Germanic y-dna, so the population the Anglo-Saxons conquered and mixed with must have been significantly more Southern/Gallic like than the Irish, and I think that's reflected in the position of England IA in the Germanic vs Celtic PCA.

The Irish have been significantly admixed with both English and Scots though, according to the Insular Celtic paper, no less than an average of 20% in any part of Ireland, with it approaching 40% in the southeast.

[Peterski]

The Irish have been significantly admixed with both English and Scots though, according to the Insular Celtic paper, no less than an average of 20% in any part of Ireland, with it approaching 40% in the southeast.

This is based on ADMIXTURE so it can be just ancient similarity.

As for Scotland - remember that Gaelic is an originally Irish language. And Scotland is a kingdom established by Gaels (who originally came from Ireland). There were Irish migrations not only to Scotland but also Wales and all of western coastline regions of Great Britain at the same time when Anglo-Saxons migrated to eastern coastline areas. So migrations were in both directions, not just from Britain to Ireland.

During the Industrial Revolution also many Irish moved to Britain.

[Peterski]

One of the reasons Romano-Britons invited the Anglo-Saxons in the 400s, was to defend them against Irish invasions...

After the Romans evacuated Brittania, the Picts and Irish were the first invaders - only later Anglo-Saxons joined them.

There was Irish settlement not just in Scotland (where they created Dal Riata), but all along the western coast of Britain:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham_inscription

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata

The Irish also settled in the Isle of Man and in southern Wales:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Dyfed

Irish inscriptions (red dots) in Wales:



Irish inscriptions (red dots) in Cornwall:

[Grace O'Malley]

The Irish do have Viking admixture, but it is likely not more than 10% of their overall autosomal composition.

If a White American with 5% of Native American admixture identified as Pocahontas, most of you would find it odd.

But enthusiastic discussions about 5% Visigothic impact in Spain or Viking impact in Ireland are considered normal.

=====

PS:

I'm just exposing TA hipocrisy, I actually think that 5% is a large enough amount to cherish such heritage. But any heritage with 5% is non-negligible (including Pocahontas - so no surprise that the number of Native Americans has been skyrocketing lately):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...tified-Germans



Some badass identities like Sioux, Apache or Viking are simply popular and won't be submerged.

People don't identify as Viking though. The reason why people discuss it is because of the two papers that came out late last year. I always thought before that the Irish were just Bell Beakers and had no Germanic ancestry at all. People discuss these topics on boards like this and get down to the nitty gritty like you with your Scots in Poland.

I'm basically baffled by it and now don't know what to believe anymore which is why I'm waiting on the Lara Cassidy paper which probably won't be published until about 2020 unfortunately.

Northwest Europeans though all appear quite close autosomally but I think the ancient genomes will answer these questions more conclusively and we will be getting plenty of those from not only Ireland but also other areas.

[Peterski]

I always thought before that the Irish were just Bell Beakers and had no Germanic ancestry at all.

Already Eupedia's Maciamo identified Germanic admixture based on Y-DNA from the Irish DNA Project on FTDNA:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ons?styleid=44

Of course his analysis is a bit obsolete because for example he associated all of I2a2 in Ireland with Germanics.

Now we know that I2a2 (together with I2a1) was actually the main haplogroup in Neolithic Britain and Ireland.

[Grace O'Malley]

Already Eupedia's Maciamo identified Germanic admixture based on Y-DNA from the Irish DNA Project on FTDNA:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ons?styleid=44

Of course his analysis is a bit obsolete because for example he associated all of I2a2 in Ireland with Germanics.

Now we know that I2a2 (together with I2a1) was actually the main haplogroup in Neolithic Britain and Ireland.

I definitely identify as Gaelic (of course). We have lots of badass historical figures of our own. Some interesting papers coming out in the next few years which should start lots of interesting discussions and hopefully answer some questions. Hard waiting for them though.

[Peterski]

I think Gildas (6th century British chronicler) wrote something like "the Anglo-Saxons push us towards the sea and the Irish push us back towards the Anglo-Saxons."

So no, it wasn't all peaceful between the Celts.

[Fantomas]

Viking input? Or is it that the original population of Ireland descends from a Nordic population -- Bell Beaker or something -- close to modern Scandinavians?

I think it might be both, as I think some people here like Septentrion are in huge denial of a large Germanic input in Ireland both from Norse Vikings and indirectly from English and Scottish settlers.

There's distinct correlation between genetic data and historical migrations



Given the big distance from Baltic populations i doubt that Scandinavians are closely related to Bell Beakers.Thus consequently prehistoric populations not caused this similarity. Rather that's the result of historical Scandinavian migrations

[Daco Celtic]

I believe Scandinavians and Irish share many of the same ancient Indo-European ancestors. On top of that, Vikings invaded and intermixed with Irish along the coast of Ireland. Vikings established such Irish cities as Dublin, Waterford, and Cork.