Is the Ancient Greek civilization basically the first indoeuropean civilization directly from Yamna?

[gıulıoımpa]

So the Ancient Greek civilization that we read about in the books preceded even the indoeuropean hellenic Greeks?

Greek civilization as we know it is after the Achean descent (described by greek legends as havign iron swords and blonde hairs) and then the dorians

[Caveat Emptor]

Greek civilization as we know it is after the Achean descent (described by greek legends as havign iron swords and blonde hairs) and then the dorians

Okay so they were Hellenic indoeuropean speakers that we understand today as Greeks right, but were they directly from the Yamnaya or some other indoeuropean group? How far back into the proto-indoeuropeans can we trace the Acheans? Thanks by the way

[Kelmendasi]

Yamnaya was r1a, the greek marker is j2a1 which is caucasian.

The Yamnaya were mainly R1b-Z2103 carriers, they hardly had any R1a iirc. It was other Steppe cultures that had R1a. The J2a found among one of the Mycenaean Greek samples was the same as the J2a found in some Neolithic European samples, coming from Anatolia originally. Though some J2a in Greece may have come from eastern Anatolia during the early Bronze Age.

[gıulıoımpa]

So mostly Hellenic indoeuropeans but not from Yamnaya?

Kretschmer says that already around 2500 there was a branch of proto hellenic and a bit more than one thousand years after it was already even more subdivided in the historical groups of Acheans Dorians and Ionians.

Instead he removed the earliest Greeks to the trail leading from the plains of Asia, where he viewed the Proto-Indo-European language as having broken up about 2500 BC. Kretschmer suggested that somewhere between that Asian homeland and Greece a new cradle of the Greek tribes developed, from which Proto-Ionians at about 2000 BC, Proto-Achaeans at about 1600 BC and Dorians at about 1200 BC came to swoop down on an increasingly less aboriginal Greece as three waves of external Greeks.[17]

[Kelmendasi]

From what I know, no modern European IE group came directly from the Yamnaya. They either came from off-shoots of the Yamnaya or Yamnaya related/influenced cultures, such as Corded Ware and Vucedol. Though I may be wrong.

[Caveat Emptor]

The Yamnaya were mainly R1b-Z2103 carriers, they hardly had any R1a iirc. It was other Steppe cultures that had R1a. The J2a found among one of the Mycenaean Greek samples was the same as the J2a found in some Neolithic European samples, coming from Anatolia originally. Though some J2a in Greece may have come from eastern Anatolia during the early Bronze Age.

Kretschmer says that already around 2500 there was a branch of proto hellenic and a bit more than one thousand years after it was already even more subdivided in the historical groups of Acheans Dorians and Ionians.

Alright guys so to put it into simple terms: ancient greece as we read about it in the textbooks begins with hellenic speakers coming from somewhere between the indoeuropean homeland in southern russia and modern greece? Not yamnaya but some other indoeuropeans?

[Caveat Emptor]

From what I know, no modern European IE group came directly from the Yamnaya. They either came from off-shoots of the Yamnaya or Yamnaya related/influenced cultures, such as Corded Ware and Vucedol. Though I may be wrong.

Let's talk about it - what are the main hypotheses? I am especially curious about Illyrian/Thracian influence and Ancient Greece, Hellenics etc. I don't know much about the topic but I am curious so do share all of the info you have.

According to wikipedia, Ancient Greek civilization seems to predate even the Hellenic indoeuropean - or am I reading it wrongly?

[Ryuk]

Okay so they were Hellenic indoeuropean speakers that we understand today as Greeks right, but were they directly from the Yamnaya or some other indoeuropean group? How far back into the proto-indoeuropeans can we trace the Acheans? Thanks by the way

The ancient Greeks didn't come directly from the Yamna culture.Yamna was dark-skinned,haired and eyed, and so far no direct migration to the Greek peninsula has been detected.

On the other hand, the multi-Cordened ware culture from the fair-skinned Corded Ware culture is the most likely origin of proto Greeks.This culture was spread to the Balkans,and R1a was found in bulgaria at the time of the migration of Mycenian.

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&s...=1542473834922

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/0...lkans.html?m=1

[gıulıoımpa]

Alright guys so to put it into simple terms: ancient greece as we read about it in the textbooks begins with hellenic speakers coming from somewhere between the indoeuropean homeland in southern russia and modern greece? Not yamnaya but some other indoeuropeans?

for sure they had contacts with them but it was a separate group

[Caveat Emptor]

for sure they had contacts with them but it was a separate group

I find it fascinating how much similarity there was between the Sintashta culture (Corded Ware-derived) that traveled on chariots to Iran and India and the first Hellenic speakers in Ancient Greece.

However, we know that the Sintashta males were mainly R1a derived from the Corded Ware, so a distinct group from the Hellenics, yet they clearly shared the protoindoeuropean culture. Do we know whether the Hellenic speakers reached Greece via Anatolia or via Balkans?