Is the Ancient Greek civilization basically the first indoeuropean civilization directly from Yamna?

[Caveat Emptor]

The ancient Greeks didn't come directly from the Yamna culture.Yamna was dark-skinned,haired and eyed, and so far no direct migration to the Greek peninsula has been detected.

On the other hand, the multi-Cordened ware culture from the fair-skinned Corded Ware culture is the most likely origin of proto Greeks.This culture was spread to the Balkans,and R1a was found in bulgaria at the time of the migration of Mycenian.

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&s...=1542473834922

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/0...lkans.html?m=1

Fascinating info

[nightrider+]

On the other hand, the multi-Cordened ware culture from the fair-skinned Corded Ware culture is the most likely origin of proto Greeks.This culture was spread to the Balkans,and R1a was found in bulgaria at the time of the migration of Mycenian.

This is not supported by Genetics because for it to work you would need a good amount of Anatolian/Armenian Chalcolithic/BA ancestry to model something Mycenaean-like. The only way it could work is with a genetically similar population to Corded Ware (who were all over the place genetically but anyway) like Sintashta coming to Greece via Anatolia.

[Ryuk]

This is not supported by Genetics because for it to work you would need a good amount of Anatolian/Armenian Chalcolithic/BA ancestry to model something Mycenaean-like. The only way it could work is with a genetically similar population to Corded Ware (who were all over the place genetically but anyway) like Sintashta coming to Greece via Anatolia.

Not necessary an Anatolian route.
Anatolia and Crete were subjected to CHG-rich migrations long before the proto Greeks arrived.Mainland greece was most likely affected by this migrations also.

We know that Greece was inhabited by Neolithic Anatolian peoples long before these two.Moreover, the multi-cordened Ware culture had wiped out the yamna derived peoples in the Black Sea before them.MC was largely have Corded Ware ancestry.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

Arkaim

Arkaim (Russian: Аркаим) is an archaeological site in Russia, situated in the steppe of the Southern Ural, 8.2 km (5.10 mi) north-to-northwest of the village of Amursky and 2.3 km (1.43 mi) south-to-southeast of the village of Alexandrovsky in the Chelyabinsk Oblast of Russia, just north of the border with Kazakhstan. It was discovered in 1987 by a team of archaeologists led by Gennady Zdanovich, preventing the planned flooding of the area for the creation of a reservoir.[1] Arkaim is attributed to the early Indo-Europeans of the Sintashta culture, which some scholars believe represents the proto-Indo-Iranians before their split into different groups and migration to Central Asia and from there to Persia and India and other parts of Eurasia (see Indo-Aryan migration theory).[2]

Scholars have identified the structure of Arkaim as the cities built "reproducing the model of the universe" described in ancient Indo-European spiritual literature, the Vedas and the Avesta.[2] The structure consists of three concentric rings of walls and three radial streets, reflecting the city of King Yima described in the Rigveda.[3] The foundation walls and the dwellings of the second ring are built according to swastika-like patterns;[4] the same symbol is found on various artefacts.[5] Arkaim is designated as a "national and spiritual shrine" of Russia[2] and has become a holy site for Rodnover, Zoroastrian and other religious movements.[6]

The fortified citadel of Arkaim dates back to the 17th and 16th century BCE. More than twenty other structures built according to similar patterns have been found in a larger area spanning from the southern Urals' region to the north of Kazakhstan, forming the so-called "Land of Towns".[7] Artefacts found at these sites date between the 4th millennium and the 20th century BCE.[8] In 2005, the city of Arkaim was visited by Vladimir Putin

[nightrider+]

Not necessary an Anatolian route.
Anatolia and Crete were subjected to CHG-rich migrations long before the proto Greeks arrived.Mainland greece was most likely affected by this migrations also.

We know that Greece was inhabited by Neolithic Anatolian peoples long before these two.Moreover, the multi-cordened Ware culture had wiped out the yamna derived peoples in the Black Sea before them.MC was largely have Corded Ware ancestry.

You are not paying attention. The Minoan sample that is used to model Mycenaeans (along with Armenian ChL/BA and Europe LNBA) is dated to 2000-1700 BC which is right before the Mycenaean period. So either mainland Greeks were somehow already influenced by Armenian ChL/BA-like people during the Minoan years, or the northern input was extremely minimal if your replace Minoans with Anatolian Neo.



Alternatively, two different peoples entered Greece, one through the north and one through the east, which I guess could make sense in an Doric etc-Ionic distinction.

[Ryuk]

You are not paying attention. The Minoan sample that is used to model Mycenaeans (along with Armenian ChL/BA and Europe LNBA) is dated to 2000-1700 BC which is right before the Mycenaean period. So either mainland Greeks were somehow already influenced by Armenian ChL/BA-like people during the Minoan years, or the northern input was extremely minimal if your replace Minoans with Anatolian Neo.



Alternatively, two different peoples entered Greece, one through the north and one through the east, which I guess could make sense in an Doric etc-Ionic distinction.

Armenia Bronze Age was CHG mix Hurro-urartians.The Minoans take most of their ancestry from CHG rich migrants.That's why they look alike.Yes, there's a migration from the East, but it's before Mycenian migration from the North

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&s...=1542478636687

[Babak]

I find it fascinating how much similarity there was between the Sintashta culture (Corded Ware-derived) that traveled on chariots to Iran and India and the first Hellenic speakers in Ancient Greece.

However, we know that the Sintashta males were mainly R1a derived from the Corded Ware, so a distinct group from the Hellenics, yet they clearly shared the protoindoeuropean culture. Do we know whether the Hellenic speakers reached Greece via Anatolia or via Balkans?

They were all interconnected and they most likely entered via Anatolia.

[nightrider+]

Armenia Bronze Age was CHG mix Hurro-urartians.The Minoans take most of their ancestry from CHG rich migrants.That's why they look alike.Yes, there's a migration from the East, but it's before Mycenian migration from the North

https://www.google.com.tr/url?sa=t&s...=1542478636687

Minoans and Armenia Bronze Age are not much alike. Minoans can be modeled as about 85% Anatolian Neo and 15% CHG. But that's besides the point.

[Ryuk]

Minoans can be modeled as about 85% Anatolian Neo and 15% CHG. But that's besides the point.

Were you not read the paper.It say minoans having their ancestry mostly caucasian.

. Here we show that Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three-quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean1,2, and most of the remainder from ancient populations related to those of the Caucasus3 and Iran4,5.

[nightrider+]

Were you not read the paper.It say minoans having their ancestry mostly caucasian.

It doesn't say that and what I posted is from the paper. Anatolian farmers were not Caucasian and not CHG-like.