Where in Europe did the Ashkenazi Jewish founder event take place?

[Peterski]

According to one theory, Ashkenazi Jews are all descended from a very small group of people, like for example this article claims:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ashken...e-study-finds/

If this theory is true then I suppose that those several hundred Proto-Ashkenazim had to live in just one specific area at that time.

So I wonder where do you think did they live before becoming more numerous? Was it in the Rhineland? Or already in Poland?

[NSXD60]

Askenazi Jews founder event(s) were pogroms.

[Dick]

Not sure. I've only known a few Ashkenazi's irl and they don't seem to be very smart which is their stereotype(high IQ, whatever), just sneaky like Poles, so I'll say Poland

[Peterski]

There was one founder event and geneticists estimate that it took place 800-600 years ago.

I think that this estimate is too late and that the founder event took place in the Rhineland.

Iwo Pogonowski wrote:

http://www.pogonowski.com/books/Jews...Poland_all.pdf

"(...) Between 1340 and 1772, the Jewish population of Poland grew 75-fold, from about 10,000 to over 750,000. During the same period, the Christian population grew only 5-fold. This exceptional increase took place in large part between the 11th and 16th centuries, as a result of a massive movement of Jews from western Europe to greater freedom in Poland. Beginning in the 17th century, a steady trickle of Jews migrated west from the historic Polish lands, prompted by the Cossack uprising led by Khmelnitskiy in 1648. The Ukrainian Cossacks perpetrated the bloodiest massacres of Jews since the Romans. However, the tiny Jewish communities subsequently established in the west were much too small to generate a modern ethnic and political identity comparable to that of their parent community in Poland, which had the largest concentration of Jews in the world at that time. In the 17th century, the Polish Jewish population began to explode. Widespread Jewish teenage marriages resulted in unprecedented birthrates, considerably higher than amongst the rest of the population. Between 1650 and 1770 the number of Jews in Poland increased by over 300 percent to more than 750,000. (...) The Jewish population continued to grow throughout the Partitions of Poland (1795-1918), even though Jewish communal bodies lost the broad autonomy which they had previously enjoyed. (...)"

Population of Jews in the Holy Roman Empire and in the PLC over time:

http://www1.idc.ac.il/Faculty/Eckste...03sept2018.pdf

Askenazi Jews founder event(s) were pogroms.

Pogroms of Jews in the Rhineland started during the First Crusade (year 1095):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland_massacres

"The Rhineland massacres, also known as the persecutions of 1096 or Gzerot Tatnó[1] (Hebrew: גזרות תתנ"ו‎ Hebrew for "Edicts of 4856"), were a series of mass murders of Jews perpetrated by mobs of German Christians of the People's Crusade in the year 1096."

That is more than 600-800 years ago which is genetic estimate of the bottleneck.

[Dick]

There was one founder event and geneticists estimate that it took place 800-600 years ago.

I think that this estimate is too late and that the founder event took place in the Rhineland.

Iwo Pogonowski wrote:

http://www.pogonowski.com/books/Jews...Poland_all.pdf

"(...) Between 1340 and 1772, the Jewish population of Poland grew 75-fold, from about 10,000 to over 750,000. During the same period, the Christian population grew only 5-fold. This exceptional increase took place in large part between the 11th and 16th centuries, as a result of a massive movement of Jews from western Europe to greater freedom in Poland. Beginning in the 17th century, a steady trickle of Jews migrated west from the historic Polish lands, prompted by the Cossack uprising led by Khmelnitskiy in 1648. The Ukrainian Cossacks perpetrated the bloodiest massacres of Jews since the Romans. However, the tiny Jewish communities subsequently established in the west were much too small to generate a modern ethnic and political identity comparable to that of their parent community in Poland, which had the largest concentration of Jews in the world at that time. In the 17th century, the Polish Jewish population began to explode. Widespread Jewish teenage marriages resulted in unprecedented birthrates, considerably higher than amongst the rest of the population. Between 1650 and 1770 the number of Jews in Poland increased by over 300 percent to more than 750,000. (...) The Jewish population continued to grow throughout the Partitions of Poland (1795-1918), even though Jewish communal bodies lost the broad autonomy which they had previously enjoyed. (...)"

Population of Jews in the Holy Roman Empire and in the PLC over time:

http://www1.idc.ac.il/Faculty/Eckste...03sept2018.pdf



Pogroms of Jews in the Rhineland started during the First Crusade (year 1095):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland_massacres

"The Rhineland massacres, also known as the persecutions of 1096 or Gzerot Tatnó[1] (Hebrew: גזרות תתנ"ו‎ Hebrew for "Edicts of 4856"), were a series of mass murders of Jews perpetrated by mobs of German Christians of the People's Crusade in the year 1096."

That is more than 600-800 years ago which is genetic estimate of the bottleneck.

Your point? They're getting their revenge anyway. Europe is dead.

[Peterski]

Your point?

Just wondering how such as a small community could grow to millions of people during just several centuries.

[Dick]

Just wondering how such as a small community could grow to millions of people during just several centuries.

Inbreeding plus a bit of assimilation just like every other ancient tribe but they became numerous recently so they're not some God-chosen ancient tribe as they like to portray themselves. Dosn't change the fact that they're getting revenge on eeevil Europeans.

[Böri]

Ashkenazis have genetically in common but not all same with Eastern Slavs and central Euros.
The difference in genetics tests can be spotted through the SSA genes at low levels.

The gene groups of, say, Poles etc are entirely similar with Ashkenazis, including the low East Med etc which Poles or Slovaks also have. The only difference the Ashkenazis have (which the natives of EE lack), that's the 1-2% Negroid.

Pretty much just as you use to measure the Siberian component to measure the Turkic effect in some regions for some people, you can use the SSA levels to genetically identify and part the Ashkenazis from Slavs etc.

[Mingle]

North Italy? Half of their genome is said to be from there.

[Peterski]

Pogrom =/= massacre.

For example throwing some stones at windows of Jewish shops, with mortality rate 0, also counts as a pogrom.

In 1096 there were actual massacres of Jews in the Rhineland and possibly that is what caused the bottleneck.

North Italy? Half of their genome is said to be from there.

But their language - Yiddish - probably originated in the Rhineland. Italian Jews speak Italkian instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Italian_languages

Or could Yiddish originate among Germanic tribes that invaded North Italy, such as the Lombards?