View Poll Results: Yes or no?

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  • Yes. Maltese are as Sicilian as someone from Agrigento, Enna, Palermo, etc.

    3 75.00%
  • No. They have been separate long enough that genetic distinctions have emerged.

    1 25.00%
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Thread: Genetically, should Malta be considered part of the Sicilian population?

  1. #41
    Veteran Member Mingle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Because if it wasn't for the Norman conquest and the Crusades, Maltese (or its ancestor) was naturally positioned to be the vernacular of Sicily. The Normans intervention on the island prevented that from being the case. However, as I said I prefer Sicilian to Florentine.
    But one could say if it weren't for the Arab conquest, then Sicilian would have naturally become the language of Sicily. Though Malta is still just as much as Sicilian language as Maltese is. After all, Sicilian came from Lazio/Latium if we go back far enough.



    But anyways, there's another question I've been meaning to ask for a while. Do you know why Sicily is so over-represented on GEDmatch and stuff? On GEDmatch, they often have multiple reference samples in the oracle. Kinda weird for such a small place. Sure, it has genetic diversity, but it can't be more genetically diverse than North Italy or some other places which only have a single sample. Also, the Lukasz report has Sicily divided into seven different regions (eight if you include Malta) based on genetic differences. Do you know why that is? Has Sicily just been studied much more by professionals than other regions of the world?

  2. #42
    Veteran Member FinalFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    I do not know. I always said Greeks feel a connection to Armenia because of their mutual dislike of the Turks, their suffering under the Ottoman Empire, etc. But I would imagine Italians have fond feelings for Armenians, why would they not?
    I'd say some cultural similarities could play a role there too. But yeah I guess you're right.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    But one could say if it weren't for the Arab conquest, then Sicilian would have naturally become the language of Sicily. Though Malta is still just as much as Sicilian language as Maltese is. After all, Sicilian came from Lazio/Latium if we go back far enough.
    Actually it wouldn't have, because the Sicilian language originated from Latin-speaking southern Italians settled in Sicily after Arab rule ended. Essentially, Arabic (which would become Maltese) replaced Greek, and then Italic dialects replaced Arabic. Sicilian language is related to the dialects in Calabria, Campania, etc. If not for Arab rule, Sicilians would be speaking Greek and would basically be another Crete (which is, also, genetically very similar to Sicily with minor differences).

    But anyways, there's another question I've been meaning to ask for a while. Do you know why Sicily is so over-represented on GEDmatch and stuff? On GEDmatch, they often have multiple reference samples in the oracle. Kinda weird for such a small place. Sure, it has genetic diversity, but it can't be more genetically diverse than North Italy or some other places which only have a single sample. Also, the Lukasz report has Sicily divided into seven different regions (eight if you include Malta) based on genetic differences. Do you know why that is? Has Sicily just been studied much more by professionals than other regions of the world?
    Because of my influence on these forums probably

    On a genetic basis, there is diversity in Sicily. Post-Neolithic Levantine and Caucasian input is higher in Calabria, northeast Sicily, Palermo, and the inland and central regions, and comparatively weak in southeastern Sicily and the Adriatic coast (where the people are closer to mainland Greeks, oddly enough, or halfway between them and other southern Italians). The areas with more North African input, around 5-10% or so in my experience are the western third of Sicily and then Malta of course. Trapani is a weird case on the far west of the island because they have high post-Neolithic MENA input, but they also absorbed a lot more Norman and Italic ancestry in the last 1000 years than any other part of the island, so their overall genetic distance from the Levant is higher than it otherwise would be.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NarLFC View Post
    I'd say some cultural similarities could play a role there too. But yeah I guess you're right.
    Going back to the Sicily question, the interesting thing is that the region on the island with the most cultural influence from MENAs (meaning you feel like you could be in a heavily Europeanized version of Tunisia or Lebanon) is Trapani which on a genetic basis has been the most influenced by any demographic changes spurred by Norman rule. Isn't it odd how that turned out?

  5. #45
    Veteran Member FinalFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Going back to the Sicily question, the interesting thing is that the region on the island with the most cultural influence from MENAs (meaning you feel like you could be in a heavily Europeanized version of Tunisia or Lebanon) is Trapani which on a genetic basis has been the most influenced by any demographic changes spurred by Norman rule. Isn't it odd how that turned out?
    Honestly it's not surprising. Given the history of migration patterns and genetic continuity between the tail end of Europe and the north end of Europe's neighbors. That area has always been a bit blurry imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by NarLFC View Post
    Honestly it's not surprising. Given the history of migration patterns and genetic continuity between the tail end of Europe and the north end of Europe's neighbors. That area has always been a bit blurry imo
    It's just interesting that despite having the most Norman ancestry, the feeling of being near Tunisia is highest in Trapani on a cultural level.

    Then again culturally the Greek islands feel much less like Turkey than do the northern parts of Greece and genetics definitely contradicts that too.

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