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Thread: Armenia and azerbaijan conflict

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Armenian Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NarLFC View Post
    My friend, its Artsakh, erroneously referred to as karabakh
    That's True, and I'm aware of the Name: Yes, it's Artzakh, not Karabakh, but the misnomer is well established and gives us a common understanding. The same thing happened to the American Revolution battlefield name of Bunker Hill, because the Battle of Bunker Hill was fought on Breed's Hill. Because of the misnomer, we now call it Bunker Hill, despite that historians know that the battle was fought elsewhere.

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    Banned Albobalboa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armenian Bishop View Post
    The legal framework isn't served well by the negotiating powers, and Armenia hasn't examined its legal assets well, in regards to Karabakh (also known as Artzakh). Armenia has promoted the right of "self-determination" for Armenia'a Karabakh Stronghold; on the other hand, Azerbaijan has fraudulently advocated that its "territorial integrity" has been violated, but the reality is that Armenia's "territorial integrity" was violated when the Bolsheviks and USSR gifted Karabakh and Nakhichevan to Azerbaijan.

    With Azerbaijan's petrol-oil wealth, and Turkey's NATO influence, Armenia has only achieved limited success in it's negotiations for a breakaway Karabakh Homeland. But, don't underestimate Armenia or its Karabakh Stronghold, because Azerbaijan's endeavors have all crumbled into dust, whether in the context of military endeavors or diplomatic negotiations.

    In regards to the Kardashians, it's good that you acknowledge that your own ignorance has allowed that elephant into the room. In that regard, you show some humility, which is a good thing. Of course, Armenian heritage is richly endowed with thousands of years of creative and artistic achievements, which are given a lofty place of honor. The very ground of Karabakh is dotted with cultural heritage landmarks that give proof of an Armenian presence there for at least two thousand years.
    Right now it's not so sure if Kosovo will ever be fully independent in the sense that it is globally recognized through the UN. nut if the negotitations succeed (Albo perspective), then it could open doors for Karabakh I believe. I don't think anyone can morally justify why it should be a part of Azerbaijan, it's just geopolitical games with human lives and borders that ended up screwing the Armenians.

    I don't underestimate Armenia, but you definitely have an up-hill struggle ahead that seems to get steeper as time goes by. You've survived against the odds there, but it could get worse. At least attacks from outside countries are unlikely as Iran/Russia would likely get involved.

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    Can't we all jus get along?

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    Veteran Member FinalFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armenian Bishop View Post
    That's True, and I'm aware of the Name: Yes, it's Artzakh, not Karabakh, but the misnomer is well established and gives us a common understanding. The same thing happened to the American Revolution battlefield name of Bunker Hill, because the Battle of Bunker Hill was fought on Breed's Hill. Because of the misnomer, we now call it Bunker Hill, despite that historians know that the battle was fought elsewhere.
    Though that may be true, what good is it to keep up the sharade? Personally, I'm glad the Artsakh government officially changed their name to 'mountainous republic of Artsakh'. Itll take time to catch on but at least they got it rolling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    Right now it's not so sure if Kosovo will ever be fully independent in the sense that it is globally recognized through the UN. nut if the negotitations succeed (Albo perspective), then it could open doors for Karabakh I believe. I don't think anyone can morally justify why it should be a part of Azerbaijan, it's just geopolitical games with human lives and borders that ended up screwing the Armenians.

    I don't underestimate Armenia, but you definitely have an up-hill struggle ahead that seems to get steeper as time goes by. You've survived against the odds there, but it could get worse. At least attacks from outside countries are unlikely as Iran/Russia would likely get involved.
    I'm glad you mentioned Kosovo, because the circumstances of both enclaves bear some similarities, but they're by no means the same. A big difference is that the Western Powers have largely promoted and supported an independent Kosovo, while Artzakh (aka Karabakh) has been out on a limb, lamely supported and endorsed by Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NarLFC View Post
    Though that may be true, what good is it to keep up the sharade? Personally, I'm glad the Artsakh government officially changed their name to 'mountainous republic of Artsakh'. Itll take time to catch on but at least they got it rolling.
    It's definitely a good thing and right that Armenia's Stronghold is called Artzakh, but the name hasn't gotten enough traction worldwide to give it universal usage. By the same measure, the Germans call their homeland Deutschland, despite that we call it Germany in the English Language. So, that kind of thing can happen when we're dealing with semantics.

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    Banned Albobalboa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armenian Bishop View Post
    I'm glad you mentioned Kosovo, because the circumstances of both enclaves bear some similarities, but they're by no means the same. A big difference is that the Western Powers have largely promoted and supported an independent Kosovo, while Artzakh (aka Karabakh) has been out on a limb, lamely supported and endorsed by Russia and the USA, both of whom have played both sides of the fence.
    Yeah they're different, and I'm not saying you need to agree on Kosovo. My point is that if Kosovo was to achieve full independence, it would set a precedent which Artzakh could use to gain some diplomatic clout and make a legal case. Of course the "sponsors" are critical, and if you get support from the US you lose it from Russia etc. A tricky game, especially in the geographic position you're in.

  8. #28
    Veteran Member FinalFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albobalboa View Post
    Yeah they're different, and I'm not saying you need to agree on Kosovo. My point is that if Kosovo was to achieve full independence, it would set a precedent which Artzakh could use to gain some diplomatic clout and make a legal case. Of course the "sponsors" are critical, and if you get support from the US you lose it from Russia etc. A tricky game, especially in the geographic position you're in.
    Sadly, we are in no position to dictate our fate, not for now at least. For what worit's worth, Russia is still our main ally, guarantor of the safety of the republic of Armenia and our access to military hardware. It'd be suicidal to give them the finger. This new government isn't helping matters either with their constant flirting with the west.

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