Vasconcelos' results bucket

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Adding SZ30 Lombard form Szólád, Hungary. She improves the fit greatly, for whatever reason:

Most Iberians usually get close approximations with Hungarian ancient samples. Try this:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

[Vasconcelos]

Most Iberians usually get close approximations with Hungarian ancient samples. Try this:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/ancient.htm

That's based on K36. Yuck.


Most West Europeans do, but some samples are statistically better than others and the reason is sometimes not because of shared ancestry. Compare the models above.
SZ30 in particular plots with modern Brits, she seems to have some trend that is not wholy Germanic (maybe what Gedmatch models labelled 'Atlantic') much like I do.


I actually used the averages when making the above models, but iirc one Hallstatt sample has some eastern ancestry, so maybe I should have added both to the dataset. Oh well.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

What's wrong with K36?

[Vasconcelos]

It's not as good as other Eurogenes calculators. And neither of those are as good as G25

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

It's not as good as other Eurogenes calculators. And neither of those are as good as G25

É a calculadora mais popular e fiável do antigo projecto Eurogenes. É verdade que o próprio autor aparenta não gostar muito desta calculadora mas os componentes foram todos escolhidos a dedo, só peca mesmo pelos nomes que ele atribui aos componentes (French, Italian, Armenian, etc) porque na realidade foram usadas apenas samples ancestrais e não de países modernos.

O teu próprio similarity map que postaste baseado no K36 está em total concordância com os teus outros resultados.

[Vasconcelos]

É a calculadora mais popular e fiável do antigo projecto Eurogenes. É verdade que o próprio autor aparenta não gostar muito desta calculadora mas os componentes foram todos escolhidos a dedo, só peca mesmo pelos nomes que ele atribui aos componentes (French, Italian, Armenian, etc) porque na realidade foram usadas apenas samples ancestrais e não de países modernos.

O teu próprio similarity map que postaste baseado no K36 está em total concordância com os teus outros resultados.

Mas fiável segundo quem? Não segundo quem o criou, que é quem está mais habilitado a avaliar. O David nem sequer usa o K13/15, quanto mais o K36. A expressão que ele usa para esses é "stone age".
O similarity map é giro, mas a única coisa que faz é calcular distâncias entre referências. Ainda por cima referências unitárias são enganadoras porque ignoram a variação existente.


O G25 passou esses todos à frente, não vale a pena perder muito tempo com calculadores antigos.

[Vasconcelos]

I decided to post a few models in nMonte3 using the new historical Iberian samples from Olalde 2019 in Global 25. I'll couple the results with others from a few Iberian regions, for comparison.


First dataset includes both Iberia_North_IA (I3758 and I3759) samples, the Collegno outlier as a proxy for Roman (and other Central/East Med-related ancestry) and Guanche11.


[1] "distance%=1.7726"

Vasconcelos

Celtiberian,77.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
Guanche,8.8

[1] "distance%=1.036"

         Portuguese

Celtiberian,69.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.4
Guanche,11.4


[1] "distance%=1.4194"

         Spanish_Galicia

Celtiberian,70
Roman_Imperial_proxy,19.6
Guanche,10.4


[1] "distance%=0.999"

         Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Celtiberian,72.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,16.8
Guanche,10.4


[1] "distance%=1.339"

         Spanish_Cantabria

Celtiberian,81.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,13
Guanche,5.4


[1] "distance%=1.0186"

         Spanish_Andalucia

Celtiberian,70.6
Roman_Imperial_proxy,22.6
Guanche,6.8

The following model is similar to the previous one, but aimed at getting a look at Germanic ancestry using the Olalde samples. It includes an averaged Celtiberian and Visigothic (without I12034 who is a local) reference.

[1] "distance%=1.9349"

Vasconcelos

Celtiberian,80
Guanche,10.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.6
Visigothic,0

[1] "distance%=1.0936"

         Portuguese

Celtiberian,63
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15.8
Guanche,10.6
Visigothic,10.6


[1] "distance%=1.5939"

         Spanish_Galicia

Celtiberian,55
Visigothic,20.2
Roman_Imperial_proxy,15
Guanche,9.8


[1] "distance%=1.0229"

         Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Celtiberian,72.8
Guanche,10.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,10
Visigothic,6.4


[1] "distance%=1.3788"

         Spanish_Cantabria

Celtiberian,83.4
Roman_Imperial_proxy,9.2
Guanche,4.6
Visigothic,2.8


[1] "distance%=1.0692"

         Spanish_Andalucia

Celtiberian,71.8
Roman_Imperial_proxy,17.8
Guanche,6.4
Visigothic,4

I also asked Davidski to pass the Visigothic and Iron Age Olalde samples into his Celtic vs Germanic PCA so I could confirm the Goths would plot were proper Germanic individuals would (spoiler: they do). It also made me now fit inside one of the clusters on the PCA (finally) with Iron Age Iberians, which kind of explains why I have an odd position - extremelly low, or none at all, Germanic ancestry






This all strongly seems to hint that I have average West Iberian north African ancestry, low Mediterranean-related ancestry and pretty much no Germanic whatsoever, probably a result of genetic isolation and drift, which ends up being very Basque-like, despite not having no Basque ancestry at all.

[Lucas]

I also asked Davidski to pass the Visigothic and Iron Age Olalde samples into his Celtic vs Germanic PCA so I could confirm the Goths would plot were proper Germanic individuals would (spoiler: they do). It also made me now fit inside one of the clusters on the PCA (finally) with Iron Age Iberians, which kind of explains why I have an odd position - extremelly low, or none at all, Germanic ancestry

.

Can you reveal where exactly Goths plot on Celtic vs Germanic PCA? On your example there aren't add yet?

[Vasconcelos]

Can you reveal where exactly Goths plot on Celtic vs Germanic PCA? On your example there aren't add yet?

They are. Between Germans, French_East, Belgians and Austrians. 'Visigothic' is written behind -0.0075 on the y axis
Maybe I should have chosen another colour, this one is kind of hard to read

[Lucas]

They are. Between Germans, French_East, Belgians and Austrians. 'Visigothic' is written behind -0.0075 on the y axis
Maybe I should have chosen another colour, this one is kind of hard to read

I see them now