Do Pashtuns as a whole consider themselves more Middle Eastern or more Indian?

[Borealis]

They are closer to the latter genetically, but some Ive met considered themselves Middle Eastern first.

[Mortimer]

Iranic probably so middle eastern.

[Mingle]

Neither really. India is a distinct region of its own. Since the term Middle East is very broad and includes people that share little in common, Pashtuns could maybe fit there, but its geographically a bit distant from the core region of the Middle East. India has its own diversity but India (unlike the Middle East) has common traits binding the different groups over there. Simply put, the definition of Middle East is very ambiguous and Pashtuns have some similarities to peripheral Middle Easterners (Iranian). From a geographical-historical point of view, Pashtuns can be considered Central Asian (Central Asian doesn't mean Mongoloid), but Central Asia is now associated with Mongoloids and ex-USSR states and not associated with Pashtuns as much. I think the best fit for Pashtuns is probably just "South-Central Asian" as its own cultural region which encompasses Afghanistan, Western Pakistan, Eastern Iran, and maybe Tajikistan. Asia can't really be broken up into 4-5 cultural regions (central, east, north, west, south, southeast) like Europe can when its massively larger than Europe. For example, Tibetans don't either fit into any of the traditional subcategories of Asians.

[Myanthropologies]

They are not necessarily closer to the latter genetically, actually. They only have some genetic similarities to people in the extreme Northwest part of South Asia, who make up like 1% of "Indians."

Pashtuns score radically differently from Indians on nMonte

Spoiler!

Andronovo: Was a Eurasian steppe culture. Basically CHG + EHG.
Han: Han Chinese
Sappali Teppe BA: Is a BMAC (bronze age Central Asian culture). Was apparently a mix of Iranan_Neo/CHG and Levantine Farmer.
Shahr I Sokhta BA3: Is an individual from the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) who was ~ 45% AASI and 55% CHG/Iranian_Neo.

Afghan Pashtuns

#1: from Kandahar, Afghanistan/Zirak tribe

Andronovo - 23.33%
Han - 5.83%
Sappali Teppe - 61.67%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 9.17%

distance = 2.4113

#2: Afghan Pashtun from unknown province/tribe

Andronovo - 28.83%
Han - 8.33%
Sappali Teppe BA - 49.17%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 14.17%

distance = 2.5672

#3: Afghan Pashtun from unknown province/tribe

Andronovo - 30%
Han - 5.83%
Sappali Teppe BA - 51.67%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 12.5%

distance = 1.9019

#4: Afghan Pashtun from unknown province/tribe

Andronovo - 30.83%
Han - 5%
Sappali Teppe BA - 50%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 14.17%

distance = 2.4226

#5: TA user Registan (half Afghan Pashtun, half Pansheri Tajik)

Andronovo - 30.83%
Han - 4.17%
Sappali Teppe BA - 50%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 15%

Vs North South Asians

Spoiler!

Northern India/Pakistan:

Brahmin

53.7% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
23.6% Steppe_MLBA_East
22.6% AASI

"distance%=0.3445 / distance=0.003445"

Punjabi

54.05% Shahr_I_Sokhta
31.00% AASI
13.20% Steppe_MLBA_East
1.75% West_Siberia_N

"distance%=0.3536 / distance=0.003536"

Chamar

51.4% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
42.4% AASI
4.9% AfontovaGora3
1.3% Steppe_MLBA_East

"distance%=0.5325 / distance=0.005325"

South India:

Brahmin_TN

59.5% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
26.1% AASI
14.5% Steppe_MLBA_East

"distance%=0.3911 / distance=0.003911"

Velamas

64.05% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
33.20% AASI
1.90% Steppe_MLBA_East
0.85% AfontovaGora3

"distance%=0.4122 / distance=0.004122"

Afghans have a strong genetic relationship with Iranians, especially with ones from Eastern Iranian and Mazandaran, and they are West Asian.

To answer your question, it's a bit complicated. The ones from Afghanistan will consider themselves either Middle Eastern or Central Asian, whereas the Pakistani ones may consider themselves South-Central Asians. I personally consider that part of my heritage to be Middle Eastern, because Iranians, who are overall the closest ethnic group to Pashtuns in term of everything (outside of Afghanistan) are considered Middle Easterners. It wouldn't make sense to call one of them Middle Eastern but not the other one.

Afghans dont have to cluster with Arabs and Levantines to be "Middle Eastern." Sicilians and Finns are 1000 times farther from each other than Afghans and Lebanese people are from each other, yet the former two groups are both considered "European."

[Myanthropologies]

But I forgot to add, in a perfect world, the concept of "the Middle East" shouldnt really exist. If anything, I prefer the term West Asian or Central Asian. The Canadian census considers Iranians and Afghans to be West Asians, for example

[Borealis]

They are not necessarily closer to the latter genetically, actually. They only have some genetic similarities to people in the extreme Northwest part of South Asia, who make up like 1% of "Indians."

Pashtuns score radically differently from Indians on nMonte

Spoiler!

Andronovo: Was a Eurasian steppe culture. Basically CHG + EHG.
Han: Han Chinese
Sappali Teppe BA: Is a BMAC (bronze age Central Asian culture). Was apparently a mix of Iranan_Neo/CHG and Levantine Farmer.
Shahr I Sokhta BA3: Is an individual from the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) who was ~ 45% AASI and 55% CHG/Iranian_Neo.

Afghan Pashtuns

#1: from Kandahar, Afghanistan/Zirak tribe

Andronovo - 23.33%
Han - 5.83%
Sappali Teppe - 61.67%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 9.17%

distance = 2.4113

#2: Afghan Pashtun from unknown province/tribe

Andronovo - 28.83%
Han - 8.33%
Sappali Teppe BA - 49.17%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 14.17%

distance = 2.5672

#3: Afghan Pashtun from unknown province/tribe

Andronovo - 30%
Han - 5.83%
Sappali Teppe BA - 51.67%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 12.5%

distance = 1.9019

#4: Afghan Pashtun from unknown province/tribe

Andronovo - 30.83%
Han - 5%
Sappali Teppe BA - 50%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 14.17%

distance = 2.4226

#5: TA user Registan (half Afghan Pashtun, half Pansheri Tajik)

Andronovo - 30.83%
Han - 4.17%
Sappali Teppe BA - 50%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 15%

Vs North South Asians

Spoiler!

Northern India/Pakistan:

Brahmin

53.7% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
23.6% Steppe_MLBA_East
22.6% AASI

"distance%=0.3445 / distance=0.003445"

Punjabi

54.05% Shahr_I_Sokhta
31.00% AASI
13.20% Steppe_MLBA_East
1.75% West_Siberia_N

"distance%=0.3536 / distance=0.003536"

Chamar

51.4% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
42.4% AASI
4.9% AfontovaGora3
1.3% Steppe_MLBA_East

"distance%=0.5325 / distance=0.005325"

South India:

Brahmin_TN

59.5% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
26.1% AASI
14.5% Steppe_MLBA_East

"distance%=0.3911 / distance=0.003911"

Velamas

64.05% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
33.20% AASI
1.90% Steppe_MLBA_East
0.85% AfontovaGora3

"distance%=0.4122 / distance=0.004122"

Afghans have a strong genetic relationship with Iranians, especially with ones from Eastern Iranian and Mazandaran, and they are West Asian.

To answer your question, it's a bit complicated. The ones from Afghanistan will consider themselves either Middle Eastern or Central Asian, whereas the Pakistani ones may consider themselves South-Central Asians. I personally consider that part of my heritage to be Middle Eastern, because Iranians, who are overall the closest ethnic group to Pashtuns in term of everything (outside of Afghanistan) are considered Middle Easterners. It wouldn't make sense to call one of them Middle Eastern but not the other one.

Afghans dont have to cluster with Arabs and Levantines to be "Middle Eastern." Sicilians and Finns are 1000 times farther from each other than Afghans and Lebanese people are from each other, yet the former two groups are both considered "European."

I dont see how the distance between them and (many) South Asians is greater than that between them and Iranians.

1 Pashtun Brahmin_Gujarat:Average 5.6668 Open Map 100
2 Pashtun Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh:Average 8.9214 Open Map 100
3 Pashtun Iranian_Fars:Average 9.5055 Open Map 100
4 Pashtun Iranian_Mazandarani:Average 9.7324 Open Map 100
5 Pashtun Iranian_Persian:Average 9.4226 Open Map 100
6 Pashtun Khatri:Average 1.5862 Open Map 100
7 Pashtun Lebanese_Muslim:Average 16.9214 Open Map 100
8 Pashtun Punjabi_Jat:Average 2.3452 Open Map 100
9 Pashtun Sindhi:Average 2.6476 Open Map 100

[FinalFlash]

They are not necessarily closer to the latter genetically, actually. They only have some genetic similarities to people in the extreme Northwest part of South Asia, who make up like 1% of "Indians."

Pashtuns score radically differently from Indians on nMonte

Spoiler!

Andronovo: Was a Eurasian steppe culture. Basically CHG + EHG.
Han: Han Chinese
Sappali Teppe BA: Is a BMAC (bronze age Central Asian culture). Was apparently a mix of Iranan_Neo/CHG and Levantine Farmer.
Shahr I Sokhta BA3: Is an individual from the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) who was ~ 45% AASI and 55% CHG/Iranian_Neo.

Afghan Pashtuns

#1: from Kandahar, Afghanistan/Zirak tribe

Andronovo - 23.33%
Han - 5.83%
Sappali Teppe - 61.67%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 9.17%

distance = 2.4113

#2: Afghan Pashtun from unknown province/tribe

Andronovo - 28.83%
Han - 8.33%
Sappali Teppe BA - 49.17%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 14.17%

distance = 2.5672

#3: Afghan Pashtun from unknown province/tribe

Andronovo - 30%
Han - 5.83%
Sappali Teppe BA - 51.67%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 12.5%

distance = 1.9019

#4: Afghan Pashtun from unknown province/tribe

Andronovo - 30.83%
Han - 5%
Sappali Teppe BA - 50%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 14.17%

distance = 2.4226

#5: TA user Registan (half Afghan Pashtun, half Pansheri Tajik)

Andronovo - 30.83%
Han - 4.17%
Sappali Teppe BA - 50%
Shahr I Sokhta BA3 - 15%

Vs North South Asians

Spoiler!

Northern India/Pakistan:

Brahmin

53.7% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
23.6% Steppe_MLBA_East
22.6% AASI

"distance%=0.3445 / distance=0.003445"

Punjabi

54.05% Shahr_I_Sokhta
31.00% AASI
13.20% Steppe_MLBA_East
1.75% West_Siberia_N

"distance%=0.3536 / distance=0.003536"

Chamar

51.4% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
42.4% AASI
4.9% AfontovaGora3
1.3% Steppe_MLBA_East

"distance%=0.5325 / distance=0.005325"

South India:

Brahmin_TN

59.5% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
26.1% AASI
14.5% Steppe_MLBA_East

"distance%=0.3911 / distance=0.003911"

Velamas

64.05% Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
33.20% AASI
1.90% Steppe_MLBA_East
0.85% AfontovaGora3

"distance%=0.4122 / distance=0.004122"

Afghans have a strong genetic relationship with Iranians, especially with ones from Eastern Iranian and Mazandaran, and they are West Asian.

To answer your question, it's a bit complicated. The ones from Afghanistan will consider themselves either Middle Eastern or Central Asian, whereas the Pakistani ones may consider themselves South-Central Asians. I personally consider that part of my heritage to be Middle Eastern, because Iranians, who are overall the closest ethnic group to Pashtuns in term of everything (outside of Afghanistan) are considered Middle Easterners. It wouldn't make sense to call one of them Middle Eastern but not the other one.

Afghans dont have to cluster with Arabs and Levantines to be "Middle Eastern." Sicilians and Finns are 1000 times farther from each other than Afghans and Lebanese people are from each other, yet the former two groups are both considered "European."

Post the global25 admixture average for Pashtuns.

[Myanthropologies]

I dont see how the distance between them and (many) South Asians is greater than that between them and Iranians.

1 Pashtun Brahmin_Gujarat:Average 5.6668 Open Map 100
2 Pashtun Brahmin_Uttar_Pradesh:Average 8.9214 Open Map 100
3 Pashtun Iranian_Fars:Average 9.5055 Open Map 100
4 Pashtun Iranian_Mazandarani:Average 9.7324 Open Map 100
5 Pashtun Iranian_Persian:Average 9.4226 Open Map 100
6 Pashtun Khatri:Average 1.5862 Open Map 100
7 Pashtun Lebanese_Muslim:Average 16.9214 Open Map 100
8 Pashtun Punjabi_Jat:Average 2.3452 Open Map 100
9 Pashtun Sindhi:Average 2.6476 Open Map 100

I already showed you that they score radically different from South Asians on nMonte. Pashtuns are almost entirely ancient Central Asian + steppe, with some South Asian admixture. Actual South Asians are predominately South Asian with central Asian and steppe admixture. The Indian subcontinent is very diverse, and claiming that Pashtuns are closer to "Indians" than to Middle Easterners is quite misleading, considering that India is extremely genetically diverse (it has just as much genetic diversity as Europe). Pashtuns have some genetic similarities with extreme North South Asians, like Kashmiris, Kalash, etc, but those groups are heavily Central and West Asian influenced genetically. The similarities mostly come from the fact that those groups are shifted towards Pashtuns and not the other way around. However, pashtuns arent closer to other South Asians than they are to West Asians.

[Mingle]

To answer your question, it's a bit complicated. The ones from Afghanistan will consider themselves either Middle Eastern or Central Asian, whereas the Pakistani ones may consider themselves South-Central Asians. I personally consider that part of my heritage to be Middle Eastern, because Iranians, who are overall the closest ethnic group to Pashtuns in term of everything (outside of Afghanistan) are considered Middle Easterners. It wouldn't make sense to call one of them Middle Eastern but not the other one.

Just to be clear, when I say "South-Central Asian", I'm not using it as a term to refer to us as a South Asian & Central Asian mix. To me, its a distinct region. Similar to how South-West Asia isn't a South Asian & West Asian mix, but its own region. I'd agree that Pashtuns are Middle Eastern or Central Asian before South Asian as well, but there are a lot of differences and a geographic disconnect (Dasht-e-Lut & Dasht-e-Kavir) so that's why I said Pashtuns should be their own category (along with our neighbors like the Baloch, Tajiks, Chitralis, Gilgitis, & Northeast Iranians).

Regarding our genetics, the cline from Pashtunistan to South Asia isn't a very smooth one like the cline from Pashtunistan to Iran is. Pashtuns are genetically close to Heratis and Heratis are genetically close to Khorasani Iranians who are in turn genetically close to Mazandaranis and so on. Its a neat cline. However, there's a noticeable gap between KPK and Punjab, and that's even if you exclude the Punjabi Dalits. Punjabi Dalits are a large part of Punjab's population and shouldn't be excluded when comparing Pashtuns to them since they are a core part of Punjab and South Asia in general. All people are gonna have some genetic similarities to their neighbors, so its not surprising if Pashtuns share some similarities with a few NW South Asians, but our genetic distance is larger than that between most neighboring peoples. And anyways, there's more to these regional classifications than genetics. Albanians and Serbs are both Balkanites despite being genetically extremely different.

[Borealis]

Post the global25 admixture average for Pashtuns.

1 Gonur1_BA +Simulated_AASI +Sintashta_MLBA Brahmin_Gujarat:Average 1.7904 Open Map 52.5 30.83 16.67
2 Gonur1_BA +Simulated_AASI +Sintashta_MLBA Khatri:Average 1.6214 Open Map 58.33 22.5 19.17
3 Gonur1_BA +Simulated_AASI +Sintashta_MLBA Pashtun:Average 1.2557 Open Map 55 20 25
4 Gonur1_BA +Simulated_AASI +Sintashta_MLBA Punjabi_Jat:Average 1.8023 Open Map 52.5 24.17 23.33
5 Gonur1_BA +Simulated_AASI +Sintashta_MLBA Sindhi:Average 1.5437 Open Map 61.67 23.33 15

They aren't so different...