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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyP View Post
    Дали навистина мислиш дека јас ќе читам ова?
    Ти треба да направиш една ретроспектива , значи да не се повторувам ,Британика вика Бугари-Татари , окупирале Славонско население , им го земале нивниот јазик но го дале нивното име на Нив.
    Лавот е Бугарски само ако Апарух дошол со Лав од Волга тогаш се извинувам , мрсул еден , Бугарин ќе зборува за Лав, од антика се знае кој го користи лавот - Македонците , Ловеле лавови , носеле лавовска кожа на нив , кога ги победиле Елините-Грците во Херонеја во окупираните Грчки градови-држави поставиле Лав како стои гордо како знам на победа , за да Еѓупците му се поклонуваат.

    Блгарин и лав, па и Енглеските кралства користат лав и сега бугари се ?Исто така на сликата од Грбовите за време на Србско Царство , Рашаните и Бугарите имаат иста боја лав , додека Македонците не ... Види ти што си прво
    Прочетох ти само първото изречение. Другото няма нужда. Вече ти казах бе лумпен. Докато не пратиш линк с доказателство, че македонския герб е от 1340, а не от 17-ти век и докато не прочетеш откъса от книгата, която ти пратих, не ми отговаряй!

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Invictus- View Post
    Also Greeks had coins with lions long before the Macedonian conquest. The Macedonian conquest was around 350 BC.

    https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/gree...miletos/i.html

    Here you can find as much Greek coins with lions as you want and from Ionian Greeks in 5-6th century BC.

    By the way, you may like this one :

    "Miletos, Ionia, 600-400 BC. AR Trihemitartemorion, 7mm, 0.26 gr. Lion's head right within raised dotted border / Star of sixteen rays, eight long and eight short. Luynes coll. 2634."

    Поздрав за Джони малката пишка.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Invictus- View Post
    Айде бе смотльо. Чакам да докажеш, че македонският герб не е от 17ти век а от 1340. Докато не намериш линк с доказателство и не си прочел откъса от книгата, която ти пратих не си прави труда да ми отговаряш.
    Оо ти ама си тапанар, па овој штит со сите грбови од Србско Кралство се од 14ти век (1336-1371 Владеење на Стефан Урош V 1355–1371)) , Како може толку да си смотан ?
    Target: johnnyp_scaled
    Distance: 1.7117% / 0.01711654 | R3P
    49.6 Ancient-Macedonian
    27.2 Illyrian
    23.2 Balto-Slavic_IA

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    Поздрав за Джони олигофрена, който не може да чете.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propos...edonia#Gallery



    "Coat of Arms of Macedonia, Fojnica 17th century"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fojnica_Armorial

    "The manuscript contains a total of 139 coats of arms. It begins with a depiction of the Bogorodica, saints Cosmas and Damian, and Saint Jerome. There follows a title page, written in Cyrillic, which attributes the work to one Stanislav Rubčić, in honour of King Stefan Dušan, with the date 1340. The date of 1340 is result of pseudepigraphy.[4]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha

    "Pseudepigrapha (also anglicized as "pseudepigraph" or "pseudepigraphs") are falsely attributed works, texts whose claimed author is not the true author, or a work whose real author attributed it to a figure of the past.[1]"

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    Джони кретена пак поства снимки без линкове. Очакваш ли да взема на сериозно някаква си картинка без линк?

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Invictus- View Post
    Поздрав за Джони олигофрена, който не може да чете.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propos...edonia#Gallery



    "Coat of Arms of Macedonia, Fojnica 17th century"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fojnica_Armorial

    "The manuscript contains a total of 139 coats of arms. It begins with a depiction of the Bogorodica, saints Cosmas and Damian, and Saint Jerome. There follows a title page, written in Cyrillic, which attributes the work to one Stanislav Rubčić, in honour of King Stefan Dušan, with the date 1340. The date of 1340 is result of pseudepigraphy.[4]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha

    "Pseudepigrapha (also anglicized as "pseudepigraph" or "pseudepigraphs") are falsely attributed works, texts whose claimed author is not the true author, or a work whose real author attributed it to a figure of the past.[1]"
    Ти си очигледно глуп дечко , Ова слика е за време на владеење на Стефан Урош V (1355–1371) ,на оваа слика грбот на Македонците е ЛАВ ЦРВЕНО ЖОЛТ , додека наБЛГАРИТЕ и РАШАНИТЕ е Бело ЦРВЕН.
    Значи ретроспектива бидејќи си смотан , овој грб на Македонија е од период 1355–1371 година.



    EDIT :Значи детално бидејќи си смотан , можеби не е ист со сите детали но тој е грбот на Македонците уште од 1355 ,а пред тоа уште од антиката ,пред твојто 17ти век тоа е мојата поента.
    Target: johnnyp_scaled
    Distance: 1.7117% / 0.01711654 | R3P
    49.6 Ancient-Macedonian
    27.2 Illyrian
    23.2 Balto-Slavic_IA

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyP View Post
    Античен македонец съм. Защо не ми вярвате?
    Лека нощ.

    http://macedonia.kroraina.com/en/dlb/dlb_plates.htm#23




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    Денешна лекција: Бугарија = земја на лавови

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    Quote Originally Posted by pulstar View Post
    Денешна лекција: Бугарија = земја на лавови
    Много ясно, че символът е бил първо на древните гърци. Тогава по Балканите е имало лъвове. После България го е прихванала от Византия.

    А ето и бонус към лекцията :

    "International Commission to Inquire into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars
    Members of the Balkan Commission of Inquiry
    AUSTRIA: Dr, Josef Redlich, Professor of Public Law in the University of Vienna.
    FRANCE: Baron d’Estournelles de Constant, Senator.; M. Justin Godart, lawyer and Member of the Chamber of Deputies.
    GERMANY: Dr. Walther Schiicking, Professor of Law at the University of Marburg.
    Great Britain: Francis \W. Hirst, Esq., Editor of The Economist; Dr. H. N. -Brailsford, journalist.
    Russia: Professor Paul Milioukov, Member of the Douma.
    Unitep States: Dr. Samuel T. Dutton, Professor in Teachers’ College, Columbia University.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=keWGAAAAMAAJ
    page 50/51

    We find this struggle in Macedonia from the first days of the Servian and Greek occupation onwards. At first there was general rejoicing and an outburst of popular gratitude towards the liberators. The Macedonian revolutionaries themselves had foreseen and encouraged this feeling. They said in their proclamation to our brothers," published by the delegates of the twenty-five Macedonian confederacies on October 5/18, i.e., at the very beginning of the war:
    "Brothers:-your sufferings and your pains have touched the heart of your kindred. Moved by the sacred duty of fraternal compassion, they come to your aid to free you from the Turkish yoke. In return for their sacrifice they desire nothing but to restablish peace and order in the land of our birth. Come to meet these brave knights of freedom therefore with triumphal crowns. Cover the way before their feet with flowers and glory. And be magnanimous to those who yesterday were your masters. As true Christians, give them not evil for evil. Long live liberty! Long live the brave army of liberation!" In fact the Servian army entered the north and the Greek army the south of Macedonia, amid cries of joy from the population. But this enthusiasm for the liberators soon gave place to doubts, then to disenchantment, and finally was converted to
    hatred and despair. The Bulgarian journal published at Salonica, Bulgarine, first records some discouraging cases whose number was swollen by the presence of certain individuals. chauvinists of a peculiar turn, who gave offence to the national sentiment of the country by the risks they ran. "It is the imperative duty of the powers in occupation,", said the journal, "to keep attentive watch over the behavior of irresponsible persons." Alas! five days later (November 20) the journal had to lay it down, as a general condition of the stability of the alliance, that the powers in occupation should show toleration to all nationalities and refrain from treating some of them as enemies. Four days later the journal,
    instead of attacking the persons responsible. was denouncing the powers who in their blind chauvinism take no account of the national sentiments of the people temporarily subject to them. They still, however, cherished the hope that the local authorities were acting without the knowledge of Belgrade. The next day the editor wrote his leader under a question addressed to the Allied Governments: "Is this a war of liberation or a war of conquest?" He knew the reply well enough; the Greek authorities forbade the existence of this Bulgarian paper in their town of Salonica.

    The illusion of the inhabitants likewise disappeared before the touch of reality. The Servian soldier, like the Greek, was firmly persuaded that in Macedonia he would find compatriots, men who could speak his language and address him with 'jivio' or 'zito'. He found men speaking a language different from his, who cried 'hourrah!' He misunderstood or did not understand at all.
    The theory he had learned from youth of the existence of a Servian Macedonia and a Greek Macedonia naturally suffered but his patriotic conviction that Macedonia must become Greek or Servian, if not so already, remained unaffected. Doubtless Macedonia had been what he wanted it to become in those times of Douchan the Strong or the Byzantine Emperors. It was only agitators and propagandist Bulgarians who instilled into the population the idea of being Bulgarian. The agitators must be driven out of the country, and it would again become what it had always been, Servian or Greek. Accordingly they acted on this basis.

    Who were these agitators who had made the people forget the Greek and Servian tongues? First, they were the priests; then the schoolmasters; lastly the revolutionary elements who, under the ancient regime, had formed an organization; heads of bands and their members, peasants who had supplied them with money or food,- in a. word the whole of the male population, in so far as it was educated and informed. It was much easier for a Servian or a Greek to discover all these criminal patriots than it had been for the Turkish authorities, under the absolutist rgime, to do so. The means of awakening the national conscience were much better known to Greeks and Servians, for one thing, since they were accustomed to use them for their own cause. Priests, schoolmasters, bands existed among the Greeks and Servians, as well as among the Bulgarians. In Macedonia the difference, as we know, lay in the fact that the schoolmaster or priest, the Servian voyvoda or Greek andarte, addressed himself to the minority, and had to recruit his own following instead of finding them ready made. Isolated in the midst of a Bulgarian population, he made terms with Turkish power while the national Bulgarian organizations fought against it. Since the representative of the national minority lived side by side with his Bulgarian neighbors, and knew them far better than did the Turkish official or policeman, he could supply the latter with the exact information. He learned still more during the last few vears of general truce between the Christian nationalities and growing alliance against the Turk. Almost admitted to the plot, many secrets were known to him. It was but natural he should use this knowledge for the advantage of the compatriots who had appeared in the guise of liberators. On the arrival of his army, he was no longer solitary, isolated and despised ; he became useful and necessary, and was proud of serving the national cause. With his aid, denunciation became an all powerful weapon; it penetrated
    to the recesses of local life and revived events of the past unknown to the Turkish authorities. These men, regarded by the population as leaders and venerated as heroes, were arrested and punished like mere vagabonds and brigands, while the dregs were raised to greatness.

    This progressive disintegration of social and national life began in Macedonia with the entry of the armies of occupation, and did not cease during the eight months which lie between the beginning of the first war and the beginning of the second. It could not fail to produce the most profound changes. The Bulgarian nation was decapitated.

    To combat the Bulgarian schools was more difficult. The time was alreadylong past when the schoolmaster was necessarily a member of the "interior organization". The purely professional element had steadily displaced the apostles and martyrs of preceding generations. But the conquerors saw things as they had been decades ago. For them the schoolmaster was always the conspirator, the dangerous man who must be gotten rid of, and the school, however strictly "professional," was a center from which Bulgarian civilization emanated. This is why the school became the object of systematic attack on the part of Servians and Greeks. Their first act on arriving in any place whatsoever was to close the schools and use them as quarters for the soldiery. Then the teachers of the village were collected together and told that their services were no longer re-
    quired if they refused to teach in Greek or Servian. Those who continued to declare themselves Bulgarians were exposed to a persecution whose severity varied with the length of their resistance. Even the most intransigeant had to avow themselves beaten in the end; if not, they were sometimes allowed to depart for Bulgaria, but more usually sent to prison in Salonica or Uskub."

    Here is info about the book :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report...he_Balkan_Wars

    " Among the members of the Commission there were three Nobel Prize winners.[1]"

    http://www.pollitecon.com/html/ebook...alkan-Wars.pdf

    Quotes are from page 64 from pdf and page 50 from the book onward.

    И за десерт :

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml



    Тук се вижда огромното количество античен македонски ген. Дори гърците нямат толкова. А се вижда и какви татари сме българите. Направо да си стягаме багажа и да тръгваме към Монголия

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Invictus- View Post
    Много ясно, че символът е бил първо на древните гърци. Тогава по Балканите е имало лъвове. После България го е прихванала от Византия.

    А ето и бонус към лекцията :

    "International Commission to Inquire into the Causes and Conduct of the Balkan Wars
    Members of the Balkan Commission of Inquiry
    AUSTRIA: Dr, Josef Redlich, Professor of Public Law in the University of Vienna.
    FRANCE: Baron d’Estournelles de Constant, Senator.; M. Justin Godart, lawyer and Member of the Chamber of Deputies.
    GERMANY: Dr. Walther Schiicking, Professor of Law at the University of Marburg.
    Great Britain: Francis \W. Hirst, Esq., Editor of The Economist; Dr. H. N. -Brailsford, journalist.
    Russia: Professor Paul Milioukov, Member of the Douma.
    Unitep States: Dr. Samuel T. Dutton, Professor in Teachers’ College, Columbia University.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=keWGAAAAMAAJ
    page 50/51

    We find this struggle in Macedonia from the first days of the Servian and Greek occupation onwards. At first there was general rejoicing and an outburst of popular gratitude towards the liberators. The Macedonian revolutionaries themselves had foreseen and encouraged this feeling. They said in their proclamation to our brothers," published by the delegates of the twenty-five Macedonian confederacies on October 5/18, i.e., at the very beginning of the war:
    "Brothers:-your sufferings and your pains have touched the heart of your kindred. Moved by the sacred duty of fraternal compassion, they come to your aid to free you from the Turkish yoke. In return for their sacrifice they desire nothing but to restablish peace and order in the land of our birth. Come to meet these brave knights of freedom therefore with triumphal crowns. Cover the way before their feet with flowers and glory. And be magnanimous to those who yesterday were your masters. As true Christians, give them not evil for evil. Long live liberty! Long live the brave army of liberation!" In fact the Servian army entered the north and the Greek army the south of Macedonia, amid cries of joy from the population. But this enthusiasm for the liberators soon gave place to doubts, then to disenchantment, and finally was converted to
    hatred and despair. The Bulgarian journal published at Salonica, Bulgarine, first records some discouraging cases whose number was swollen by the presence of certain individuals. chauvinists of a peculiar turn, who gave offence to the national sentiment of the country by the risks they ran. "It is the imperative duty of the powers in occupation,", said the journal, "to keep attentive watch over the behavior of irresponsible persons." Alas! five days later (November 20) the journal had to lay it down, as a general condition of the stability of the alliance, that the powers in occupation should show toleration to all nationalities and refrain from treating some of them as enemies. Four days later the journal,
    instead of attacking the persons responsible. was denouncing the powers who in their blind chauvinism take no account of the national sentiments of the people temporarily subject to them. They still, however, cherished the hope that the local authorities were acting without the knowledge of Belgrade. The next day the editor wrote his leader under a question addressed to the Allied Governments: "Is this a war of liberation or a war of conquest?" He knew the reply well enough; the Greek authorities forbade the existence of this Bulgarian paper in their town of Salonica.

    The illusion of the inhabitants likewise disappeared before the touch of reality. The Servian soldier, like the Greek, was firmly persuaded that in Macedonia he would find compatriots, men who could speak his language and address him with 'jivio' or 'zito'. He found men speaking a language different from his, who cried 'hourrah!' He misunderstood or did not understand at all.
    The theory he had learned from youth of the existence of a Servian Macedonia and a Greek Macedonia naturally suffered but his patriotic conviction that Macedonia must become Greek or Servian, if not so already, remained unaffected. Doubtless Macedonia had been what he wanted it to become in those times of Douchan the Strong or the Byzantine Emperors. It was only agitators and propagandist Bulgarians who instilled into the population the idea of being Bulgarian. The agitators must be driven out of the country, and it would again become what it had always been, Servian or Greek. Accordingly they acted on this basis.

    Who were these agitators who had made the people forget the Greek and Servian tongues? First, they were the priests; then the schoolmasters; lastly the revolutionary elements who, under the ancient regime, had formed an organization; heads of bands and their members, peasants who had supplied them with money or food,- in a. word the whole of the male population, in so far as it was educated and informed. It was much easier for a Servian or a Greek to discover all these criminal patriots than it had been for the Turkish authorities, under the absolutist rgime, to do so. The means of awakening the national conscience were much better known to Greeks and Servians, for one thing, since they were accustomed to use them for their own cause. Priests, schoolmasters, bands existed among the Greeks and Servians, as well as among the Bulgarians. In Macedonia the difference, as we know, lay in the fact that the schoolmaster or priest, the Servian voyvoda or Greek andarte, addressed himself to the minority, and had to recruit his own following instead of finding them ready made. Isolated in the midst of a Bulgarian population, he made terms with Turkish power while the national Bulgarian organizations fought against it. Since the representative of the national minority lived side by side with his Bulgarian neighbors, and knew them far better than did the Turkish official or policeman, he could supply the latter with the exact information. He learned still more during the last few vears of general truce between the Christian nationalities and growing alliance against the Turk. Almost admitted to the plot, many secrets were known to him. It was but natural he should use this knowledge for the advantage of the compatriots who had appeared in the guise of liberators. On the arrival of his army, he was no longer solitary, isolated and despised ; he became useful and necessary, and was proud of serving the national cause. With his aid, denunciation became an all powerful weapon; it penetrated
    to the recesses of local life and revived events of the past unknown to the Turkish authorities. These men, regarded by the population as leaders and venerated as heroes, were arrested and punished like mere vagabonds and brigands, while the dregs were raised to greatness.

    This progressive disintegration of social and national life began in Macedonia with the entry of the armies of occupation, and did not cease during the eight months which lie between the beginning of the first war and the beginning of the second. It could not fail to produce the most profound changes. The Bulgarian nation was decapitated.

    To combat the Bulgarian schools was more difficult. The time was alreadylong past when the schoolmaster was necessarily a member of the "interior organization". The purely professional element had steadily displaced the apostles and martyrs of preceding generations. But the conquerors saw things as they had been decades ago. For them the schoolmaster was always the conspirator, the dangerous man who must be gotten rid of, and the school, however strictly "professional," was a center from which Bulgarian civilization emanated. This is why the school became the object of systematic attack on the part of Servians and Greeks. Their first act on arriving in any place whatsoever was to close the schools and use them as quarters for the soldiery. Then the teachers of the village were collected together and told that their services were no longer re-
    quired if they refused to teach in Greek or Servian. Those who continued to declare themselves Bulgarians were exposed to a persecution whose severity varied with the length of their resistance. Even the most intransigeant had to avow themselves beaten in the end; if not, they were sometimes allowed to depart for Bulgaria, but more usually sent to prison in Salonica or Uskub."

    Here is info about the book :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report...he_Balkan_Wars

    " Among the members of the Commission there were three Nobel Prize winners.[1]"

    http://www.pollitecon.com/html/ebook...alkan-Wars.pdf

    Quotes are from page 64 from pdf and page 50 from the book onward.

    И за десерт :

    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml



    Тук се вижда огромното количество античен македонски ген. Дори гърците нямат толкова. А се вижда и какви татари сме българите. Направо да си стягаме багажа и да тръгваме към Монголия
    Не можам да се расправам со кралот на џунглата

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