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Thread: Odinists, not Vikings

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    Default Odinists, not Vikings

    I would like to reflect on those who associate Odinism with the Vikings. It is a stereotype that has been imposed from outside (as the pagan term when the Christianization of Europe occurs was imposed from the outside) because, although our religion goes back to the native European beliefs of Prehistory, it is in the Viking Age of where most of the sources come from and the Nordic countries were the last redoubt of the old Germanic religion. Likewise, the fact that the Eddas, the main historical source of our faith, are written in Old Norse and that, therefore, many terms are used in that language (in the same way that Christianity uses terms in Latin or Greek) or that is denominated to the gods with the Nordic names by that question, causes that from outside the Odinism is associated with the Vikings. The problem comes when the stereotype is assumed by the odinists themselves and they call themselves Vikings. I would especially encourage them to ask certain questions:

    Do you live in the 9th century? Do you have a drakar and loot monasteries the summers? Are you Scandinavian? If the answer to all these questions is no, I'm sorry but you're not a Viking, no matter how much you like the Viking Metal or the Vikings series.

    What was a Viking?

    I suppose this is the first question that must be answered to make it clear why a Odinist of today is not a Viking. The word Viking refers to a Scandinavian pirate or assailant who carried out looting expeditions in the century between the 8th century and the 11th century, in what is called the Viking Age. It must be said that during this period the Christian sources refer to these assailants as Normans (men from the north) or with other names, but the term Vikings began to be used during the 19th century Romanticism, as well as the stereotyped image of dirty people , barbarian, with helmets with horns ...

    This means that not all the Scandinavians were Vikings and that it is a term used from the Christian perspective, not from the Nordic peoples, full of negative connotations, because the Vikings are presented as a kind of pagan demons that looted and massacred to peaceful monks ... at a time when the customs of Christian Europe were as or more wild than those of the Nordics. To know more about this topic I recommend the book by Laia San José Beltrán "Quienes fueron realmente los vikingos".

    What we really are

    If odinism is associated with the Vikings it is mainly because in Scandinavia it is where the old European religion lasted the longest (only the Lithuanians, who endured until the 14th century, and the Saami, until the 18th century, resisted more) and also where the Christianization was much more superficial and folklore better preserved the previous tradition. Likewise, it was in Iceland that for the first time the modern Asatrú was recognized by a sovereign State, in 1973. The Nordic language is the language of the sagas and the Eddas and in short the Nordic countries are the last redoubt of the old faith of the Germanic peoples, which has its roots in the common European trunk. Something similar happens with the Celts and Ireland, although there were Celtic peoples from the Danube to the Iberian Peninsula, there is a tendency to associate the Celtic with Ireland and the Gaelic language for similar reasons.

    But we must understand, to begin with, that there is a common European religion for 40,000 years. The peoples of southern Europe received the eastern pollution more than those of the north, so the Greek or Roman religion has much more similarity with religions of the Near East, which was seen by its state nature and by existing a priestly caste. In central and northern Europe, pollution was lower. On the other hand, Odinism is an expression of that European religion, that of the Germanic peoples such as the Saxons, the Goths, the Franks, the Swabians, the Vandals, the Jutes, the Queruscans ... who spread throughout the continent. If we use the Nordic names to refer to the gods it is for convenience, but we must not lose sight of that common ancestral trunk.

    Let's see for example the name Odin. The origin of the divinity that we honor as the Father of All is Woþanaz, a proto-Germanic god who represents warrior fury. The German verb woudden means "to rage" or "to anger". Woþanaz derives Woþan and hence Wotan, which is the name given by the continental Germans to this god. In Scandinavia it evolved from Woþan to Woðan and from there to Oðan, Oðinn. Change its name to the Castilian Spanish form, Odín. We use the name Odin for being the most modern reference, the same as a Christian uses the name God and not the Latin Deus or use the name Christ and not the Greek Χριστός, Messiah and not Māšîaḥ in Hebrew, and so on.


    Why are you odinist if you are not Scandinavian?

    In short, a Spaniard today has no Viking heritage, nor does a Frenchman (unless he is Norman) or an Italian. The appellant asks what they sometimes do to us: why are you odinist if you are not Scandinavian? It is the result of ignorance about what Odinism is. Instead of making us Vikings, what you have to do is analyze things and take into account several things to answer that question.

    In the first place, Odinism has its roots in the old European religion and that the differences between Germans and Celts were often simply linguistic or the name that Greeks and Romans gave to these peoples. Secondly, since protohistory, we have a Germanic presence in the Iberian Peninsula. There were tribes who emigrated from beyond the Rhine and settled in Iberia, assimilating then the Celtic or Iberian customs, for example the oretanos.

    On the other hand, our Celtic and Iberian heritage survived in the countryside in the face of Romanization, which was eminently urban. When the Empire fell, the field became the most common way of life, so although Latinized and Christianized, our ancestors maintained their previous customs. The arrival of Germanic peoples such as Swabians and Vandals and the settlement of these in rural areas fundamentally merged with the Celtiberians. With the establishment of the Visigoths, in the cities Christianity would settle, but in the countryside the old customs were maintained.

    This means that Spaniards today have a Germanic heritage that is visible in folklore, in names like Carlos, Fernando, Alfonso, Gonzalo, Blanca, Matilde, Rodrigo ... in surnames ending in -ez or -iz, typical of Castilla, or in -es or -is, typical in Catalonia, Portugal or Galicia, which are of Visigoth origin and mean "son of". We are Swabians, Vandals, Visigoths, Celts, Iberians, Latins ... and therefore European natives. We do not have to have any kind of complex or want to be Vikings to be odinists because simply, in our heritage, we can find those roots.

    A religious belief can not be a laboratory reconstruction, it is not a rational, scientific, archaeological process ... or whatever we want to call it. This may clash with the mentality of our time where the main religion is the cult of Holy Science, but above all a religion has a Mystery component. That means that it is first of all an internal call, something that wakes up inside, in the heart before in the head. First intuited and then understood. When enough maturity is reached by going deeper into the path, it will be shaped. In this sense Ásatrú is an expression among others of the old native European religion, but concretely it is "the call of the North" if we want to say it that way, with all that this entails. But when one inquires more, inevitably it arrives at a pan-European position over labels placed by scholars to one or another tribe of Mother Europe: this is Celtic, this is Germanic, and so on. That is why you do not decide to follow the Æsir and the Vanir; you are called the gods of the North, which is different.

    But what about Netón and the Iberian gods? What at first sight may seem strange to the one who does not know it, is much better understood when one delves into the very essence of beliefs. The Iberian gods, called numina by the Romans, are essentially the Indo-European gods, only with the name given to them by the Oretans, Bastetans, Turdetans ... all of them European tribes, even though the Academy wants to look for three feet to the cat . I insist, this is a spiritual path, we must follow it with the heart, not be blinded by technicalities or be blinded if such a tribe was Celtic, or Iberian, or Germanic; but for the most punctilious, some of these Iberian tribes (like the oretanos) were native of the Rhine and were called germani by the Romans. The Iberians developed their own theology, but this has not reached us. Even so we see the same patterns, values ​​and worldview in them that in the rest of European towns. Likewise, its alphabet is similar to runes and, although its phonetic value differs, we must assume that the magical component of these symbols was similar.

    The lesser spirits of the iberos or daimones, as the Greeks called them, can be perfectly equated with the elves or the landvættir and it is understood that when the spirits of the earth are honored in a blót, they are being honored. Likewise, there would be many female deities whose name has been lost but who surely adopted the Christian mask of the Virgin Mary in their different invocations. The profusion of the Marian cult in Spain is undoubtedly a symptom of the importance of the cult to these goddesses, which we can perfectly identify with the disir and that therefore we are also worshiping when we worship them. Likewise, all the malignant beings of Hispanic folklore are undoubtedly a local expression of the destructive forces of chaos, known since the night of time, or Christian deformations of the old gods.

    In this sense, the Ásatrú not only does not oppose the old Iberian gods but rather constitutes a continuity and in a certain way a restoration of these. The same happens with the heroes or demigods and other elements of the Iberian religion and naturally with the ancestors. We can appreciate all the elements of European religiosity in what we know of the Iberian religiosity, even with Eastern influences in its last period (which on the other hand also had Greek or Roman religion). We can see a similar funerary pattern, with a celestial destiny for the heroes and earthly destiny for the rest, a great importance of the feminine priesthood that closely resembles the Germanic cult of Nerþus, and so on. Why the Nordic pantheon instead of the Iberian pantheon? Well, above all, as I said before, for an intuitive question. But in addition to this, because although the differences between the different branches of the European religion are rather regional varieties; we must bear in mind that each pantheon is complete in itself, each town developed its theology and therefore each pantheon must be taken as a whole. In the Iberian case it is practically impossible to go deeper than in the name of the gods and in some attributes, but we do not have theological texts, nor do we have a mythical cycle, we do not have enough information.

    But this should not be seen, I think, as "we choose the Nordic instead of the Iberian" but rather as "the Nordic (or Gothic) version is the most complete and the most spiritual response can offer us both versions, totally valid and ours, of the native spirituality ". My particular vision with regard to Spain is that our ultimate root, our essence, is in pre-Roman Iberia, which the Germanic Hispania (Gothic and Swabian) what it came to do was restore and revitalize the Celtiberian and that this, religiously speaking, It is expressed in this way. I believe that Iberian spirituality is perfectly integrated into Ásatrú, just as an Ásatrú practitioner from Eastern European countries in no way renounces his Slavic substratum. In antiquity this has happened thousands of times, for example with the arrival of the Celts in the British Isles, who saw the dolmens and other megalithic monuments as sacred places of power and as such they converted them into sanctuaries, integrating them into their beliefs. The Germanic element, throughout Europe, is the germ of modern nations and in all cases was built on a previous basis. The only thing that happens is that in some countries the tribal identity is more rooted and it is not necessary to explain these things, while in Spain people assume as "ours" only the Roman Catholic, which, in my opinion, is not really understand the essence of what is Hispanic.




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    Why Odinism and not Roman paganism, which is much better known and has much more to do with your ethnicity than Norse paganism does? Odin wasn't even a Indo-European god but rather a indigenous Scandinavian deity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    Why Odinism and not Roman paganism, which is much better known and has much more to do with your ethnicity than Norse paganism does? Odin wasn't even a Indo-European god but rather a indigenous Scandinavian deity.
    Roman paganism was influenced by non-Indo-European religions such as the Etruscan, and also during the lower Empire during the decadence of matriarchal oriental origins, in this sense odinism is a more "pure" native faith.

    In any case in Italy, Roman neopaganism is practiced today
    https://www.ancient-origins.net/anci...revival-020631

    Odin / Wodan / Wotan is an Indo-European God, with the exception that it was not transmitted during the antiquity, since it arose later, due to a spiritual need of God-Priest that demanded the society, the same function that Brhaspati has in the Hinduism Odin received influences from Mercury and later from Sami shamanism and was assumed to be a God of wisdom from the kingdom of the gods to the kingdom of men.

    Last edited by Hruodberht; 12-15-2018 at 01:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    Why Odinism and not Roman paganism, which is much better known and has much more to do with your ethnicity than Norse paganism does? Odin wasn't even a Indo-European god but rather a indigenous Scandinavian deity.
    Odin is a Germanic god,and his name is from proto Germanic "Wodanaz"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerwen View Post
    Odin is a Germanic god,and his name is from proto Germanic "Wodanaz"
    Germanic mythology itself is a hybridization of Indo-European and indigenous Scandinavian ideas. Wotan has no cognates in other Indo-European cultures and is clearly a indigenous god later adopted by the Indo-European invaders. Donar - the pan Indo-European thunder god - was the leader of the Proto-Germanic pantheon and even in the Iron Age Wotan was mostly worshipped by the elite of the Germanic society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    Why Odinism and not Roman paganism, which is much better known and has much more to do with your ethnicity than Norse paganism does? Odin wasn't even a Indo-European god but rather a indigenous Scandinavian deity.
    Because he's probably a Spanish LARPer who wants to fetishize Indo-Europeans even if Spaniards are barely 30% Indo-European genetically. They don't care if something is non-Indo-European as long is it doesn't have any relation with non-European groups. That's why you hardly see Neo-Pagans from Southern Europe embodying Mediterranean paganism, because it's too attached with Near Eastern and North African religions. A Spanish who says he's Odinist for racial reasons is basically a self-hater.

    I can understand liking Odinism for aesthetical reasons or even feeling more attached to it from a religious point of view. But claiming Indo-European racialism to be an Odinist when one barely have anything in common with Northern Europeans is quite ridiculous imo.

    All Indo-European religions were a mix of native traditions and Indo-European structures. There's no exception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McCloskey View Post
    Because he's probably a Spanish LARPer who wants to fetishize Indo-Europeans even if Spaniards are barely 30% Indo-European genetically. They don't care if something is non-Indo-European as long is it doesn't have any relation with non-European groups. That's why you hardly see Neo-Pagans from Southern Europe embodying Mediterranean paganism, because it's too attached with Near Eastern and North African religions. A Spanish who says he's Odinist for racial reasons is basically a self-hater.

    I can understand liking Odinism for aesthetical reasons or even feeling more attached to it from a religious point of view. But claiming Indo-European racialism to be an Odinist when one barely have anything in common with Northern Europeans is quite ridiculous imo.

    All Indo-European religions were a mix of native traditions and Indo-European structures. There's no exception.
    1. I am not an odinist because of a racial issue but of spiritual affinity, what happens with Odinism is that it attracts both the theists and atheists, just as Buddhism does. It is a philosophy and spirituality that does not demand obedience. The Odinists pray to their gods standing and with their heads held high, we do so with pride and dignity, as the children of the gods should do. Odinists believe that they are destined to coexist with nature instead of becoming their master. They also believe in gender equality on a scale that was rarely seen during their time, especially outside the cult of the Abrahamic desert. Women were sometimes fighters, could do business, vote on important political issues, arrange a divorce and even demand reparations from their ex. A society that does not love the world and its women can not love itself. In addition, in the odinists, people are not condemned to spend forever in hell.

    And not because Ragnar Lothbrok have the hair of the balls a pixel clearer than mine ...

    I think your racist references is a psychological projection your, a resents seeing a Spaniard practicing European religion who clumsily still believes that Odinism is the religion of the Norse or the Vikings.

    As I have already explained Odinism has its roots in the old European religion and differences religious as I have already pointed out between Germans and Celts, the Italic, Greek tribes were often simply linguistic or the name that Greeks and Romans gave these peoples...

    On the other hand, the greatest gene pool that occurs in Spain belongs to the R1b group that is shared by the other peoples of the Atlantean Europe ...
    http://jesusgonzalezfonseca.blogspot...ropa-y-de.html

    If we use that racialist bias so arbitrary that you show, that says to practice an Indo-European religion you have to have the hair of the balls of the same color as Ragnar Lothbrok, then that the Hindu Indians become converts of Hinduism and Christianity because in the end they practically do not have Aryan blood ... I do not have any problem in that a person with dark hair and dark eyes practice odinism, maybe you the problem is yours, that you think from ignorance and prejudice to see Spaniards and southern Europeans practicing the native European faith, because if instead of writing bullshit you would have taken the trouble to inform you, would know that Else Christensen the Folk Mother of odinism had a great importance on the formation of neopaganism in Spain, recognizing within the odinist orthodoxy the group Círculo Odinista Español, which would lead to the Odinist Community of Spain-Ásatrú and of course she would not go saying those antics "is that only Nordic can be odinists" gñeeeee.

    2. Roman and Greek paganism, Slavonic, Baltic, Celtic, same cosmogony have the same eschatological, same cosmic and cyclical principles, the same omnipresence of the sacred, the same cult of nature and ancestors, al them are polytheistic, pluralistic, non-proselytizing, no dogmatic, open and dynamic, community, and mythical in terms of knowledge and style of explanation of the world.A same social and political structure, generally patriarchal, where the king was chosen by his peers from among the heads of family and controlled by the assembly of family heads; a system that could be defined as "aristo-democracy". And a specific mental structure, with a particular conception of the religious fact, of society, of sovereignty, of relations between men and gods, and with a common theology, liturgy, poetry and epic literature, and you pretend to make us believe all these characteristics in common it does not matter a shitt because the Indo-European peoples of the north called him his Dyeus patēr Odin and those of the south Mercury ....

    In Scandinavia the christianization was much more superficial and the folklore was better preserved the previous tradition, if we use the Nordic names to refer to the gods is for convenience, but without losing sight of that common ancestral trunk, the same as Christian uses the name God and not the Latin Deus or use the name Christ and not the Greek Χριστός, Messiah and not Māšîaḥ in Hebrew, et cetera. The Nordic language is the language of the sagas and the Eddas and, in short, the Nordic countries are the last redoubt of the old faith of the Germanic peoples, which has its roots in the common European trunk. Something similar happens with the Celts and Ireland, although there were Celtic peoples from the Danube to the Iberian Peninsula, there is a tendency to associate the Celtic with Ireland and the Gaelic language for similar reasons.

    And in case I have not been sufficiently clear, I will explain where the lexical roots of some Indo-European gods come from.

    Dyeus patēr (proto-indoeuropean supreme God)

    Vedic: Dyaus Pitar, derivative to Dyu Piter.
    Greek: Zeus (Dyeus)
    Roman: Lupiter through Latin

    Names derive from the proto-Indo-European root: * dyew-, * deywó-, which is a derivative of the root * dyw-, which means 'illuminated sky', 'day sky', 'day glow', as well as the designation for an adjective that meant 'heavenly', 'bright', 'resplendent' derives from it, and is the characteristic that identifies the deity.

    In the case of Norse mythology, Tyr was originally the supreme god, meaning 'god', and in the tiwar plural, 'gods', (one of the names of Odin was Hangatyr, the 'hung god') and comes from the proto-Germanic language Tîwaz , which is also the continuation of the Proto-Indo-European Dieus, originally the main god in the region of Central Asia and which was also the precursor of Zeus, Jupiter and Dievas in Baltic mythology.
    Last edited by Hruodberht; 12-15-2018 at 08:50 PM.

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    OP, there's a lot of people following the pagan worship of Zeus and the rest of the Olympus' gang in Greece.


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    Egyptian pantheon is very similar to Germanic one and that doesn't make it Indo-European.

    Ra fought Apep snake as well.

    Romans, Greeks and Egyptians don't share anything with Indo-European people since they are not Indo-Europeans just like Egyptians.

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