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Thread: Are Kazakhs indeed Turkified Mongols?

  1. #101
    Veteran Member Yaglakar's Avatar
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    The above post is complete and utter bs. Classifying languages based on j and y variations. The Turkish author of that unpublished article claims that old Turkic is y and Turkish is y therefore Turkish or rather Oghuz how he puts it, is decedent of Old Turkic. LOL. Maybe it is time to publish old Turkic dictionary in Turkey, because old Turkic or rather Tukue Türk tongue used both initials j and y.

    Now let's cut to the core. Old Turkic, Orkhon Uighur and Yenisei Kirghiz (essentially dialects of the same language) are dead languages with no direct successors. The closest language would probably be Tuvan, but it is not a descendant of old Turkic but a descendant of the language of Chiks, who due to their proximity spoke a very similar language. Qipchaq "language" is a complete scientific construct, no language data, no written material, it is only assumed they spoke some sort of Turkic language which they probably did with many dialectical variations, but due to numerous pre-Mongol era, Mongolic loanwords in Russian, at least some of tribal elements of Qipchaqs or Kumans must have been Mongolic, which is not surprising given that Turkics and Mongolics have been mixing way before Ghengis Khan. And certainly medieval "Qipchaqs" did not constitute a single people, more like terms Scythian or Türks (medieval ones, not ancient) covering a lot of different people with different origins. Karakhanid tongue or Türki is a branch of Tukue Türk language, but not its direct descendant, one can call it old Karluk to make things easy, but there were more than dozen different groups, not only Karluks. Orkhon Uighur and old Uighur are two different languages, one is language of monuments in Mongolia, and the other the language of documents found in Kucha-Tufan-Qumul area. The old Uighurs who came to Xinjiang and Gansu switched to local Turkic languages in these respective areas, and Orkhon Uighur died out just like old Turkic and eventually Yenisei Kirghiz.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuk View Post
    For instance, *J- survives in Karachay-Balkar; whereas in Kazan Tatar it was preserved before- i- (hence Kazan Tatar Jir "earth", Jil "wind"), but changed to y- before other vowels (hence Kazan Tatar yafraq "leaf", yul "road", yïlan "snake", yörek "heart").
    There seems to be no strict system.
    It seems the literary norm prescribes different pronunciation based on one of the Tatar dialects. At the same time, there extreme dialects exists based mainly on one pronunciation .
    I cannot refer to opinion of expert, I read the opinion of a person who is well knowing various Tatar dialects, as well as other Turkic languages. His opinion is : a fusion of different dialects.
    You can see this situation in this dictionary.
    http://tatar.com.ru/dict/jj.php
    jyalt : see the yalt


    Last edited by Chelubey; 01-08-2019 at 10:49 PM.

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