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Thread: Are Kazakhs indeed Turkified Mongols?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ymyyakhtakh View Post
    Are you talking about /q/ (voiceless uvular stop)?

    According to eurasianphonology.info, /q/ is also included in these languages:

    Indo-Iranian: Lemi Chin, Khowar, Shughni, Rushani, Khufi, Sarikoli, Yazghulami, Kalam (Swat-Dir) Kohistani, Wotapuri-Katarqalai, Domari, Southern Pashai, Kalkoti, Kumzari, Dari, Sorani
    Caucasian: Adyghe, Dargwa, Hinuq
    Semitic: Kuwaiti Arabic, Barwar Neo-Aramaic, Betanure Neo-Aramaic, Arbel Neo-Aramaic, Amədya Neo-Aramaic, Alqosh Neo-Aramaic
    Isolate: Burushaki

    Output of `curl http://eurasianphonology.info/static..._dbase.json|jq -r '.[]|.name+": "+(.cons|join(" "))'|grep ' q '`:

    Spoiler!
    It is not exactly voiceless uvular stop though there is some similarity because I know that in the Northern Caucasus sound K also sounds rather harsh but with additional voiceless stop. In Kazakh language there is no stop or a pause after sound K. It is just pronounced closer to a throat area. It is not pronounced like for example K'aimak ( with a short pause) but just Kaimak.

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    As updated on the other thread, Kazakhs and Mongols should have different origins, Kazakhs being of Turkic origin and belonging mainly to C-M401 and Mongols to C-F1756. Mongols moved mainly southwestwards in Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Afghanistan. The area of Central Asia should have been turkified long ago by Kazakhs, Karakalpaks and other turkic tribes. Appart from these, there is a whole array of haplogroups specific for Kazakhs, like G-M285, N-M128, R-M198 etc.

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    Turkics and Mongols aren't quite the same as true East Asians. There are some chilling similarities no doubt, but they're not quite the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shubotai View Post
    As updated on the other thread, Kazakhs and Mongols should have different origins, Kazakhs being of Turkic origin and belonging mainly to C-M401 and Mongols to C-F1756. Mongols moved mainly southwestwards in Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Afghanistan. The area of Central Asia should have been turkified long ago by Kazakhs, Karakalpaks and other turkic tribes. Appart from these, there is a whole array of haplogroups specific for Kazakhs, like G-M285, N-M128, R-M198 etc.
    C-F1756 is more common among Turks of Central Asia than Mongols. Kalmyks & Buryats have almost no C-F1756 but mostly C2-M48 and C2-M407.

    Also C2-M401 is the most common haplogroup among Hazaras of Afghanistan.

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    That is correct. The confusion arises from the fact that Mongolia was originally the homeland of Turks while Mongols moved en large into Central Asia. Of course, Kazakh is a turkic language heavily shaped by migrations of Siberian like people into Central Asia.

    Indeed, in the ethnic groups we find C-F1756 among Turkic peoples, Khalkha Mongols, Nogai and ancient Xianbei.
    While C-M401 with 15% in Mongolians, 25% in Kazakhs, especially senior Zhuz, and 33% in Hazara and 7% in Pakistani.
    C-M407 in 10% of Kalmyks, 40% in Buryats, 67% in Qongyrats and possibly Chinggis Khaan. C-M407 is descendant of C-CTS2657, a proto-Koreanic
    haplogroup which is not under Altaic C-L1373, but under East Asian C-F1067.
    And C-M86 with 30% in Kalmyks, 18% in Kazakhs, 40% in Oirat Mongols etc.

    However linguistically the connection would be:
    C-F1756 proto-Turkic
    C-M401 proto-Mongolic
    C-M86 proto-Tungusic

    So to answer the original question also, Kazakhs are turkified Mongols and Khalkha mongolified Turks. If Kazakhstan and Mongolia switched languages it would pe perfect. In the west usually referring to Mongols meaning Kazakhstan so oddly enough they get it correctly, no worry. Also, Kazakhastan is switching to latin alphabet.

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