Why is Paganism Booming in Europe and Beyond?

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

And sometimes Roman political officials purposely rigged the omens of entrails which were supposed to determine the gods' will. Just how seriously they saw "the gods' will" as a religious thing per se is up to debate.



Roman citizens were required to make a perfunctory offering of incense as a show of civic unity and goodwill.



Kind of like how Americans celebrate the 4th of July. Their religion went hand-in-hand with their culture. It was inseparable. But whether a Roman citizen actually believed in the Roman gods or not was a non-issue. Cicero in De Rerum Natura (On the Nature of the Gods) makes statements that may be considered by modern readers to be agnostic or atheistic. Even Lucretius, a proto-Atheist author makes references to "the gods' will" and writes about the gods as if they actually existed. But this was essentially, a literary device.

Well, if the intelligentsia of the time, namely philosophers, historians , intellectuals etc disbelieved of many of the common practices, and even mock them by referring to them as prosaic superstitions,
Why should a modern audience, with our knowledge in science, see them with a mayor reverence than his contemporaries?

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

So the answer is for me and others like me to accept a religion merely as a political agenda because Muslims will kill us if we don't? That's essentially what the Christians in this thread are saying. They don't care whether a person actually accepts a theological dogma, or actually believes it, so long as they pretend to as a way to fight back against Islam. This is disingenuous.

Their religion went hand-in-hand with their culture. It was inseparable. But whether a Roman citizen actually believed in the Roman gods or not was a non-issue.

Pliny to the Emperor Trajan
Hence it is easy to imagine what a multitude of people can be reformed if an opportunity for repentance is afforded.

Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.

[Óttar]

Well, if the intelligentsia of the time, namely philosophers, historians , intellectuals etc disbelieved of many of the common practices, and even mock them by referring to them as prosaic superstitions,
Why should a modern audience, with our knowledge in science, see them with a mayor reverence than his contemporaries?

It is a matter of worldview. The Roman gods existed in the same way that Rome existed. Religion and culture was inseparable. Everything, trees, rocks, springs, abstract concepts (Victory, Libertas, etc.), organizations, occupations, you name it, had a deity associated with it. In this way, everything was imbued with Divinity. Meals, rising, sleeping, all had rituals associated with it. Civic occasions and festivals were associated with, and presided over, by gods, and these gods were a part of the fabric which brought the people together.

Notice that the belief, or rather practice, of veneration of the gods did not interfere with Romans and other ancient peoples' scientific discoveries.

Traditional Christianity has a Judaic, Abrahamic, superstratum; a superficial veneer, placed over Greco-Roman, Germanic, Celtic, Eastern Mediterranean, originally "pagan" cult sites, practices, festivals, etc. I am advocating that we wash off the Judaic veneer and return these things to their original "pagan" context.

This thread started with Christians, quite a few even who are lukewarm in their practice, or even using it as a mere prop for a political agenda, bashing polytheists as silly, "effeminate", etc. We did not attack them or their positions until we were provoked by ad hominems and defamation.

[Óttar]

Pliny to the Emperor Trajan
Hence it is easy to imagine what a multitude of people can be reformed if an opportunity for repentance is afforded.

Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.

I maintain that the Roman persecution of Christians and Jews occurred because they refused to make the perfunctory offering of incense to the Emperor. This cannot be compared to the Inquisition, the crusade against the Cathars, wars between Catholics and Protestants in Europe, the burning of heretics etc. It is not the same.

[Jacques de Imbelloni]

It is a matter of worldview. The Roman gods existed in the same way that Rome existed. Religion and culture was inseparable. Everything, trees, rocks, springs, abstract concepts (Victory, Libertas, etc.), organizations, occupations, you name it, had a deity associated with it. In this way, everything was imbued with Divinity. Meals, rising, sleeping, all had rituals associated with it. Civic occasions and festivals were associated with, and presided over, by gods, and these gods were a part of the fabric which brought the people together.

Notice that the belief, or rather practice, of veneration of the gods did not interfere with Romans and other ancient peoples' scientific discoveries.

Traditional Christianity has a Judaic, Abrahamic, superstratum; a superficial veneer, placed over Greco-Roman, Germanic, Celtic, Eastern Mediterranean, originally "pagan" cult sites, practices, festivals, etc. I am advocating that we wash off the Judaic veneer and return these things to their original "pagan" context.

This thread started with Christians, quite a few even who are lukewarm in their practice, or even using it as a mere prop for a political agenda, bashing polytheists as silly, "effeminate", etc. We did not attack them or their positions until we were provoked by ad hominems and defamation.

Taking back what you said first, if a pagan religion is so tie with the specific culture of a specific society, if the society in question disappears, how can the religion tie to that specific culture survive?
You say you would take away the Christian envelop in traditional feasts like Chrisman’s, Easter or saint john’s night, but if people adopt these pagan festivities without believing in those Cosmo visions, wouldn’t that be like calling “catholics” to the people who gather for the saint Patrick`s day parade in New York?.
If these festivities are just leisure and the rites pastimes or hobbies, and the people don’t have a real emotional tie to these thing because none of their ancestor do it for thousands of years,
Wouldn’t that be just postmodernist consumerist pastimes, like HolI festivals in western countries? Just the new trend of the moment?