Independent Kurdistan: would you support it?

[Kyp]

As far as Iran is concerned IMO it is not as simple as that. The Qajars were north Azeris that settled in Mazanbdran and rose to power.

Reza Shah was Mazandarani and part Georgian and his wife the mother of Mohammed Reza Shah was from Baku and was ethnic Azerbaijani. His wife was half Azeri and half Mazandarani.

Khomeini was Persian from central Iran. Bazargan and BaniSadr were both Ethnic Azeri, and they were the first ministers of the Islamic Republic. Khamenei is half Azeri and half Mashahadi and Identifies as Azeri because his father made Azerbaijani the language of his household. That is his mother tongue.

Ethnic identity is much more complex in Iran. As you can see in Iran rulers are seldom ethnic Persians.

Yes but we all know that Iranian government (since Pahlavis) views the so called "Azeris" as an Iranian people and doesn't acknowledge the complex ethnic background of the Azerbaijani people. This was well played by Iranians, since their Azerbaijani population now mostly feels Iranian and doesn't seek Seperation. And unfortunetly I even think Turkish will die out in the future out of social pressure and urbanization. As for my father's family they weren't allowed to move back to Azerbaijan region after fall of Qajar regime. Some families of our tribe even took Persian surnames in exchange for the older tribal ones. Regional identities and languages are dying out in Iran for greater "Persian identity". Just sad imo from an outside perspective. Good for nationalistic purposes. Bad for remaining of culture & language plurality.

[Fedora]

Your numbers are intentionally wrong. Total Turkish are 55-60 million (70-75 %) and Kurds are 16-17 million (18-20 %) (by CIA country fact book). It is not my theory. Your president himself said it and it makes sense as well because Kurdish birthrate is almost double the average Turkish. Demographic instability is a weapon.

Again, as an Iranian it is none of my concern what turkish government decides for the future of Turkey. I was merely commenting on incoming ethnic change in Turkey.

lol those numbers are not true at all. its 10 million kurmanjis and 3 million zazas

[Hajimurad]

As far as Iran is concerned IMO it is not as simple as that. The Qajars were north Azeris that settled in Mazanbdran and rose to power.

Reza Shah was Mazandarani and part Georgian and his wife the mother of Mohammed Reza Shah was from Baku and was ethnic Azerbaijani. Mohammed Reza Shah's wife, Shahbanu is half Azeri and half Mazandarani. Reza Shah II is married to an ethnic Azerbaijani.

Khomeini was Persian from central Iran. Bazargan and BaniSadr were both Ethnic Azeri, and they were the first ministers of the Islamic Republic. Khamenei is half Azeri and half Mashahadi and Identifies as Azeri because his father made Azerbaijani the language of his household. That is his mother tongue.

Ethnic identity is much more complex in Iran. As you can see in Iran rulers are seldom ethnic Persians. So Chauvinism is really a very inaccurate word to identify these regimes.

Safavi, Afshar, Qajar and Pahlavi dynasties moved large number of tribals (Kurds, Turks, Lurs) from one area to another. Were Gilakis, Mazandaranis and other sedentary Iranics involved in this deportations and where they resettled?

[Negah]

Yes but we all know that Iranian government (since Pahlavis) views the so called "Azeris" as an Iranian people and doesn't acknowledge the complex ethnic background of the Azerbaijani people. This was well played by Iranians, since their Azerbaijani population now mostly feels Iranian and doesn't seek Seperation. And unfortunetly I even think Turkish will die out in the future out of social pressure and urbanization. As for my father's family we weren't allowed to move back to Azerbaijan region after fall of Qajar regime. Some families of our tribe even took Persian surnames in exchange for the older tribal ones. Regional identities and languages are dying out in Iran for greater "Persian identity". Just sad imo from an outside perspective. Good for nationalistic purposes. Bad for remaining of culture & language plurality.

Sorry to hear that.

Reza Shah was an illiterate man that rose to power. I know many Iranians who live outside Iran worship him and his son because the Islamic Republic has become such a tragedy and disaster. But IMO the Pahlavi rule in Iran was replete with poor decisions that ultimately led to the current regime. Reza Shah and his son were both not very prudent and were disastrous rulers.

There is language discrimination in Iran just like there is religious or sex discrimination in the current regime. But having said that many things are slowly changing in Iran for the better.

[Negah]

Safavi, Afshar, Qajar and Pahlavi dynasties moved large number of tribals (Kurds, Turks, Lurs) from one area to another. Were Gilakis, Mazandaranis and other sedentary Iranics involved in this deportations and where they resettled?

I am not so sure.

[Kyp]

Sorry to hear that.

Reza Shah was an illiterate man that rose to power. I know many Iranians who live outside Iran worship him and his son because the Islamic Republic has become such a tragedy and disaster. But IMO the Pahlavi rule in Iran was replete with poor decisions that ultimately led to the current regime. Reza Shah and his son were both not very prudent and were disastrous rulers.

There is language discrimination in Iran just like there is religious or sex discrimination in the current regime. But having said that many things are slowly changing in Iran for the better.

Yeah let's not get into problems of IR
I really hope so

[Ritz06]

Sorry to hear that.

Reza Shah was an illiterate man that rose to power. I know many Iranians who live outside Iran worship him and his son because the Islamic Republic has become such a tragedy and disaster. But IMO the Pahlavi rule in Iran was replete with poor decisions that ultimately led to the current regime. Reza Shah and his son were both not very prudent and were disastrous rulers.

There is language discrimination in Iran just like there is religious or sex discrimination in the current regime. But having said that many things are slowly changing in Iran for the better.

unfurtently my family did know the shah.. not proud

[Oghuz]

Sorry to hear that.

Reza Shah was an illiterate man that rose to power. I know many Iranians who live outside Iran worship him and his son because the Islamic Republic has become such a tragedy and disaster. But IMO the Pahlavi rule in Iran was replete with poor decisions that ultimately led to the current regime. Reza Shah and his son were both not very prudent and were disastrous rulers.

There is language discrimination in Iran just like there is religious or sex discrimination in the current regime. But having said that many things are slowly changing in Iran for the better.

I am not a Shahi fan but I give credit to Reza Khan for two simple facts. He dealt with anti Iranian elements in times of chaos in his early era. Mahabad Shikaki problem was dealt with and so was Sheikh Khazal rebellion.

[Negah]

I am not a Shahi fan but I give credit to Reza Khan for two simple facts. He dealt with anti Iranian elements in times of chaos in his early era. Mahabad Shikaki problem was dealt with and so was Sheikh Khazal rebellion.

Reza Shah was a capable man and did accomplish much to centralize the power in Iran and modernize the country. Iran that he took over was 50% nomadic and tribal (Kurds, Arabs, Lurs, Qashqai, Bakhtiari's, etc), and to move Iran into the 20th century was no an easy task especially when both the Russian and the English were creating subversive movements within the country among tribal Iranians.

But in the end, he was an illiterate man and who failed to create a representative government in Tehran and ultimately, in the end, he disgraced himself by allying Iran with Nazi Germany. His son was a complete idiot.

[Negah]

unfurtently my family did know the shah.. not proud

Nothing wrong with that. The Pahlavi regime was not evil, it was highly flawed. One can argue they were much less flawed compared to the current regime