View Poll Results: what's your most likely subclade ?

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22. You may not vote on this poll
  • levant/african (V88)

    1 4.55%
  • atlantic celtic (L21)

    5 22.73%
  • gallic/iberian (DF27)

    3 13.64%
  • germanic (U106)

    4 18.18%
  • italo-celtic (U152)

    5 22.73%
  • balkan/west asian (L23)

    2 9.09%
  • other

    2 9.09%
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Thread: R1b poll. Vote

  1. #21
    Companhia dos Leőes da Beira
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    Did you ever get tested further? It would be interesting to find out what subclade under L21 you are.
    I haven't yet but planning on doing so in the future. I would have done a Yseq superclade panel by now but people tend to recommend me FTDNA.
    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


  2. #22
    aR1an & hUnt4r-gatherer Artek's Avatar
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    To complicate things by a bit - V88 was also found in the Balkan mesolithic and some clades of L21, DF27, U152, Z2103 etc. never heard of any Celts or Gallo-Iberians but were just Bell Beaker and their story was sometimes completely different over time.

    Of course, a good portion was included later into the Celtic sphere with expansion of this folk and recognised themselves as part of their culture but...what about these L21s from the eastern bank of Rhine who became Germanic? What about these Bell Beakers from the easternmost groups who became asimilated by the cousins of Balto-Slavs? What Copper Age "German" or "Czech" DF27s have to do with Iberia? Was Z2103 Bell Beaker Bronze-Age Southern "Pole" from Samborzec west asian or balkan? Can be V88 considered levant/african or just some certain subclades have the right?

    I mean I understand that we all need some simplifications to grasp the general idea and learn the details later but some people never learn the details. Someone has to say: maybe yes but be aware that you may be totally wrong on how you think about your origins.
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y3226>YP5224>BY27800
    N1c-L1026>CTS10760>VL29>Z4908>L550>L1025>M2783>Y5580>L591>BY158>Y5576
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>YP1019>YP1020>YP1033*
    R1b-U152>L2>DF103>S14469
    It's still not an end.
    R1a and R1b unite - Join!

  3. #23
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    My R1b is : R-P311

    which i take it is the iberian branch (from my spanish father ) ?

  4. #24
    Veteran Member celticdragongod's Avatar
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    I'm FGC41932 which is downstream from R1b-L21.

  5. #25
    aR1an & hUnt4r-gatherer Artek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopi View Post
    My R1b is : R-P311

    which i take it is the iberian branch (from my spanish father ) ?
    Are you tested with 23andMe V4 chip or older? P311 is equivalent to L52 so it may be everything. Possible subclade of R1b depends on your negatives.
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y3226>YP5224>BY27800
    N1c-L1026>CTS10760>VL29>Z4908>L550>L1025>M2783>Y5580>L591>BY158>Y5576
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>YP1019>YP1020>YP1033*
    R1b-U152>L2>DF103>S14469
    It's still not an end.
    R1a and R1b unite - Join!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopi View Post
    My R1b is : R-P311

    which i take it is the iberian branch (from my spanish father ) ?
    R-P311 can be any of these:

    YDNA: R1b-L21 > DF13 > S1051 > FGC17906 > FGC17907 > FGC17866


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artek View Post
    Are you tested with 23andMe V4 chip or older? P311 is equivalent to L52 so it may be everything. Possible subclade of R1b depends on your negatives.
    my 23andme data is still using version 3

  8. #28
    aR1an & hUnt4r-gatherer Artek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopi View Post
    my 23andme data is still using version 3
    So you should use this: https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal

    and check the main negatives.
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y3226>YP5224>BY27800
    N1c-L1026>CTS10760>VL29>Z4908>L550>L1025>M2783>Y5580>L591>BY158>Y5576
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>YP1019>YP1020>YP1033*
    R1b-U152>L2>DF103>S14469
    It's still not an end.
    R1a and R1b unite - Join!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artek View Post
    To complicate things by a bit - V88 was also found in the Balkan mesolithic and some clades of L21, DF27, U152, Z2103 etc. never heard of any Celts or Gallo-Iberians but were just Bell Beaker and their story was sometimes completely different over time.

    Of course, a good portion was included later into the Celtic sphere with expansion of this folk and recognised themselves as part of their culture but...what about these L21s from the eastern bank of Rhine who became Germanic? What about these Bell Beakers from the easternmost groups who became asimilated by the cousins of Balto-Slavs? What Copper Age "German" or "Czech" DF27s have to do with Iberia? Was Z2103 Bell Beaker Bronze-Age Southern "Pole" from Samborzec west asian or balkan? Can be V88 considered levant/african or just some certain subclades have the right?

    I mean I understand that we all need some simplifications to grasp the general idea and learn the details later but some people never learn the details. Someone has to say: maybe yes but be aware that you may be totally wrong on how you think about your origins.
    The oldest L21 appears to be British Bell Beakers I don't think it has even been found yet in Central European Bell Beakers. Never heard of L21 been found in the Balkan mesolithic. That would be news to me if you have info on it. From what I've read L21 is most likely to have originated somewhere in Central Europe around the Rhine and Danube Rivers. I know that U106 split off first. P312 and U106 are sort of brother clades. Under P312 there is Z290 then L21. DF27 and U152 are the most closely related as they are both under ZZ11. (See tree I posted). I'm also not aware of DF27 and U152 being around in the Balkan mesolithic.

    L21, DF27, U152 and U106 weren't around in the Neolithic let alone the Mesolithic so I'm a bit baffled.
    Last edited by Grace O'Malley; 01-11-2019 at 10:07 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriato View Post
    I haven't yet but planning on doing so in the future. I would have done a Yseq superclade panel by now but people tend to recommend me FTDNA.
    Yes you should have it done if possible. I think no continental L21 men have close STR matches to Isles L21s.

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