How best to understand the Arvanite identity..

[Dna8]

From what I gather, Arvanites, for the most part, understand themselves to be Greeks who speak both Arvanitika and Modern Greek - something similar, perhaps, to Vlachs in Serbia, who understand themselves to be Serbian Vlachs.

It is also my understanding that Arvanites have featured prominently in modern Greek history, in various capacities, from the military to the political to the theological.

Notwithstanding their comprehensive self-identification as Greeks (at least, as goes the impression I have), the discourse surrounding the Arvanites' precise relationship to Albanians appears to be rather more complicated. There seem to be two opposing camps: one which argues that the relationship between Arvanites and Albanians is less intimate (in the sense of their being linguistic and ethnic "cousins once removed", rather than "brothers"); the other seems to hold that the two peoples are kith and kin, their oneness only severed on account of the potency of the Greek sphere of influence.

What is your understanding?


Preface to the thread:

This thread is not intended as a theatre of flame war.

I would ask that any belligerents leave some space, at least, for civil discussion.

[Dna8]

[Eastern88]

They are Albanians just like Arbëresh people in Italy just they are more influenced by greeks.

[catgeorge]

No such thing as Albanian as Albanians didnt exist in Europe pre 13th century. Ali Pasha ruled his little hamlet for awhile and while buttfucking and turning Albos into muslims where muslims dominated the area where also no Greek schools and Greeks spoke several languages to trade and Ali Pasha Albanian was one of them.

[Dna8]

They are Albanians just like Arbëresh people in Italy just they are more influenced by greeks.

No such thing as Albanian as Albanians didnt exist in Europe pre 13th century. Ali Pasha ruled his little hamlet for awhile and while buttfucking and turning Albos into muslims where muslims dominated the area where also no Greek schools and Greeks spoke several languages to trade and Ali Pasha Albanian was one of them.

Thank you for posting, gentlemen

I hope more people will lend their insights.. The topic is worthy of a good discussion, IMO.. These Arvanites are one of the Balkan's ethnological points of interest..

[Tauromachos]

Arvanites descend from Orthodox people who started moving from Arvanon in Albania
into Greece since the 13th and till the 16th century.

Since then they live in Greece and they also mixed or intermarried with the neighbouring Greek Mainland people
living next to them.

All this happend before Albania as a modern nation came into existence
They live to long in Greece to be Albanians anymore
hence Arvanites view Greece as their homeland and not Albania.

[Tauromachos]

They are Albanians just like Arbëresh people in Italy just they are more influenced by greeks.

They are not Albanian

No Arvanitis considers Albania as his homeland or fatherland but Greece.

Also the Chams living in Greece were not considered Arvanites

Arvanites is a different thing they came all between the 13th and 16th century and all of them are Greek Orthodox.

If you tell an Arvanitis that his fatherland is not Greece but Albania he actually gets very angry

[Tauromachos]

Thank you for posting, gentlemen

I hope more people will lend their insights.. The topic is worthy of a good discussion, IMO.. These Arvanites are one of the Balkan's ethnological points of interest..

Arvanites as such exist only in Greece nowhere else in the Balkans

In Italy they are called Arbereshe they are from Greek Arvanite stock who migrated there during times of the Greek revolts and uprisings
against Ottomans to excape the Ottoman revengefull wrath

[Dna8]

Arvanites descend from Orthodox people who started moving from Arvanon in Albania
into Greece since the 13th and till the 16th century.

Since then they live in Greece and they also mixed or intermarried with the neighbouring Greek Mainland people
living next to them.

All this happend before Albania as a modern nation came into existence
They live to long in Greece to be Albanians anymore
hence Arvanites view Greece as their homeland and not Albania.

They are not Albanian

No Arvanitis considers Albania as his homeland or fatherland but Greece.

Also the Chams living in Greece were not considered Arvanites

Arvanites is a different thing they came all between the 13th and 16th century and all of them are Greek Orthodox.

If you tell an Arvanitis that his fatherland is not Greece but Albania he actually gets very angry

Arvanites as such exist only in Greece nowhere else in the Balkans

In Italy they are called Arbereshe they are from Greek Arvanite stock who migrated there during times of the Greek revolts and uprisings
against Ottomans to excape the Ottoman revengefull wrath

Cheers

Do we know much about how the people who would become Arvanites viewed themselves, prior to their being Hellenized?

[Eastern88]

Arvanites are descended from Middle Ages Albanians who called their selfs Arbër this is what Arvanites call their selfs too today. The term Arvanites is Greek one.Until 19th century Arvanites called Greeks "shkije" which is an Albanian term used to describe non-Albanians (for exampe the term is used to describe Serbs in Kosovo and Fyromians in Fyrom and etc ).Saying the first Arvanites were Greeks is like saying Middle Ages Albanians were Greeks.

After 19th century Arvanites got assimilated by different gonverments,some just left the traditional life and moved in cities so lost their identity.Only some of them today keep their real identity almost all consider their selfs Greeks or just "Arvanites"

So I would say Arvanites are "lost Albanians"