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Thread: Biblical: Patrilineal Jewish heritage

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    Default Biblical: Patrilineal Jewish heritage

    Hey guys.

    So in rabbinical Judaism a person is jewish if his mother was jewish. This comes from the roman law "Mater semper certa est" - the mother is always certain.

    But as we read in the Tanach (Old Testament), the heritage of the Jews is confirmed by Avraham, Jaakov and Yitzchak. Nowhere in the bible is stated, that a man is not a Jew if his mother was not jewish.

    So is it biblical to call a patrilineal Jew a Jew? Of course it would not be rabbinically or talmudic confirmed, but they may are wrong.


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    Veteran Member ModernMaskil's Avatar
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    If you're interested in this, read up on Karaite Jews. They believe that the Tanakh is the divine written Law and that the "oral tradition" also known as the Talmud is a bunch of hooey. Personally I agree with them (at least, to the degree that a secular person can). They use patrilineal heritage and pray on their knees like Muslims - most Rabbinical authorities don't consider them to be Jewish.

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    You should call them talmudic bastards.
    undecisive man

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    Discussing the issue with many orthodox rabbis, their answer was clear, there are no half-Jews for them, either you are Jewish by your mother or Goy, even if it's not biblical, Talmud affirm the supremacy of clerics over scriptures, for rabbis you can only read Tanakh by using talmudic interpretation.
    Because the mother is sure as they said, they are paranoid from Goyim contamination, the father can be a plumber or a gardener who knows?
    The Karaite have a different approach, don't recognize the Talmud, and follow the patrilineal heritage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenix View Post
    Discussing the issue with many orthodox rabbis, their answer was clear, there are no half-Jews for them, either you are Jewish by your mother or Goy, even if it's not biblical, Talmud affirm the supremacy of clerics over scriptures, for rabbis you can only read Tanakh by using talmudic interpretation.
    The Karaite have a different approach, don't recognize the Talmud, and follow the patrilineal heritage.
    Funny, right? Because when you read the bible you find not one single word about matrilineal heritage defining whether you're jewish or not. It's all about the forefathers, beginning with Avraham. Also, your tribe is defined by your father, so when you're Cohen (like me) but you don't have a jewish mother, you don't only lose your paternal tribe, but also your claim to the jewish people. That's craziness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo123 View Post
    Funny, right? Because when you read the bible you find not one single word about matrilineal heritage defining whether you're jewish or not. It's all about the forefathers, beginning with Avraham. Also, your tribe is defined by your father, so when you're Cohen (like me) but you don't have a jewish mother, you don't only lose your paternal tribe, but also your claim to the jewish people. That's craziness.
    What can you do? it's their rules, btw you have a cool ancestry.

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    Jews became matrilineal only during the Middle Ages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo123 View Post
    Funny, right? Because when you read the bible you find not one single word about matrilineal heritage defining whether you're jewish or not. It's all about the forefathers, beginning with Avraham. Also, your tribe is defined by your father, so when you're Cohen (like me) but you don't have a jewish mother, you don't only lose your paternal tribe, but also your claim to the jewish people. That's craziness.
    You can always convert.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Óttar View Post
    You can always convert.
    I know, but thats not the point. I feel more jewish by my paternal side, than I would, if it would be my mother. Can't say why, but for me the paternal side is more dominant.
    There is nothing interesting for me in Judaism as a religion, mostly because of its rabbinical and talmudic infiltration. They even claim to be "The Jewish People" and nobody else has the right to claim his belonging to this people if not permitted by rabbis. But the ancient hebrew people and the bible has nothing to do with rabbinical or talmudic culture.
    This pisses me off, to be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo123 View Post
    I know, but thats not the point. I feel more jewish by my paternal side, than I would, if it would be my mother. Can't say why, but for me the paternal side is more dominant.
    There is nothing interesting for me in Judaism as a religion, mostly because of its rabbinical and talmudic infiltration. They even claim to be "The Jewish People" and nobody else has the right to claim his belonging to this people if not permitted by rabbis. But the ancient hebrew people and the bible has nothing to do with rabbinical or talmudic culture.
    This pisses me off, to be honest.
    If there's nothing interesting to you in Judaism, why do you give a fuck what the Ultra-Orthodox rabbis think? Most Jews don't follow their bullshit. To me, if you consider yourself Jewish despite all the shit we've been through and the "reputation" we have - you're a Jew.

    Still, you're wrong about one thing. The "Rabbinical or Talmudic culture" as you put it has everything to do with the ancient Hebrew people. The Talmud and the Rabbis have existed since before the Second Temple was built. The Temple was and is the holiest site in Judaism, and by definition Jews (also known as the Hebrew people), at least up until the enlightenment, followed Judaism.

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