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Thread: Elon Musk, what is the catch?

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    auringon syy & syy Harkonnen's Avatar
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    Default Elon Musk, what is the catch?

    In the stock markets , Tesla is the most valued (expensive) car company, and it just makes no logical sense. Currently Tesla makes 250 000 cars/year, and is loosing money.

    To compare

    https://focus2move.com/world-car-brands-ranking/

    Little Subaru made million cars and nobody gives a fuck.

    It seems people have pseudo-religious cult-like belief for the infinite growth potential of Tesla.

    Again this makes no logical sense. Tesla operates like a IT Company, it really has not the infrastructure (large factories) to build ten million cars a year like the traditional operators do. If electric cars really become a thing, Old Boys should be able to react quickly and crush Tesla, like the insect it is. That is if they are not run by complete morons.




    To the catch. Religion operates outside the realm of logic and reason. If snake-charmer Musk can charm enuff fools to his cult he can pull of a "Apple".


    Personally I'm not a belieber, but who knows.
    Gunz is all that matters



    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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    Senior Member Eredet's Avatar
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    Good point, I've noticed this as well. Like it was in Stephen Hawking's and Obama's case, to an extent Musk's reputation comes from media's sensationalism rather than thorough analization of facts. A while ago I read a report on Tesla and I was surprised how bad it was doing for how hyped it was.
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    I couldnt most likely take him down. He is faster and stronger. I never really had a serious fist fight. Once I throw a punch at a security guard in a nightclub, but he put it off as if nothing happened and escorted me out. Well he was three heads taller then me and a bodybuilder probably also trained in martial arts.

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    auringon syy & syy Harkonnen's Avatar
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    Yeah it is bizarre situation to say the least. It looks like folks have this mental image in their heads that Tesla is growing company. And growth is good right? What they don't realize, is that the markets have already valued Tesla like it actually is the biggest auto company in the world right here right now. It is like buying a 10 euro lottery ticket with 2% chance that it will one day be worth 15 euro. Of course if you want to bank on the possibility that the bubble will keep growing for some time and trust that you are clever enuff to sell it before the eventual burst, then yeah why not.
    Gunz is all that matters



    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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    I haven't invested on Tesla yet because I do believe it to be overvalued at the moment and we are about to witness a possible market crash or at least a recession after nearly a decade of bullish markets (in my humble opinion, I am no financial advisor), but it is certainly not a company that is loosing money currently. Where did you get that idea from, have you read their latest third quarter 2018 update? They broke all types of records. Model 3 was the best-selling car in the US in terms of revenue and the 5th best-selling in terms of volume. That's pretty much what matters, not the number of cars produced. Subaru could be producing a million cars a year that it won't change much if the revenue does not translate into operating profit (and Subaru quarterly profit was down 50% last year on the third quarter, their lowest in over five years).

    Volatility in Tesla stocks are mostly a consequence of the impact of President Donald Trump's tariffs (sales in China crashed 70% in October amid the ongoing trade war) but that will be solved sooner or later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkonnen View Post
    is that the markets have [B]already valued Tesla like it actually is the biggest auto company in the world right here right now.
    No they did not. It is not even on top 10. Stock prices does not correlate with the value of the company. Do you think that because each Tesla's stock costs 300$ and Ford only 6$ or something that makes it the most valuable? The actual dollar price of a stock means very little unless you consider other factors, if company A has a $100 billion market capitalization and has 10 billion shares, while company B has a $1 billion market capitalization and 100 million shares, both companies will have a share price of $10, but Company A is worth 100 times more than Company B.

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    Veteran Member ixulescu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriato View Post
    No they did not. It is not even on top 10. Stock prices does not correlate with the value of the company. Do you think that because each Tesla's stock costs 300$ and Ford only 6$ or something that makes it the most valuable? The actual dollar price of a stock means very little unless you consider other factors, if company A has a $100 billion market capitalization and has 10 billion shares, while company B has a $1 billion market capitalization and 100 million shares, both companies will have a share price of $10, but Company A is worth 100 times more than Company B.
    Currently GM has a total market capitalization of about $50 billion. Tesla is at $60 billion.
    Tesla has the largest market capitalization among auto manufacturers traded in the US.
    It's not the largest auto manufacturer market value in the world though. That goes to Toyota at $200 billion.

    Overall market value (or capitalization) should not be confused with total assets or total equity. In the last two categories, Tesla has much smaller values, but it grows exponentially (!!). I would not sit on my ass if I was an auto executive right now. Tesla already ate premium car manufacturers market share in the US, and still grows at incredible pace.
    Last edited by ixulescu; 01-11-2019 at 02:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixulescu View Post
    Currently GM has a total market capitalization of about $50 billion. Tesla is at $60 billion.
    Tesla has the largest market capitalization among auto manufacturers traded in the US.
    It's not the largest auto manufacturer market value in the world though. That goes to Toyota at $200 billion.

    Overall market value (or capitalization) should not be confused with total assets or total equity. In the last two categories, Tesla has much smaller values, but it grows exponentially (!!). I would not sit on my ass if I was an auto executive right now. Tesla already ate premium car manufacturers market share in the US, and it still grows at incredible pace.
    Toyota, Daimler AG and Volkswagen probably have largest market caps than Tesla, I am unable to check them at the moment though. And yes, other established brands have more assets and equity but like you said Tesla is growing rapidly, mostly due to the fact that it is much more than just a mere car company. Their lithium-ion batteries have the potential to be way more profitable than their entire car business sector. We shall see. Like I have said I am reluctant to invest on Tesla right now because the stocks are overvalued (imo) due to outsized optimism. When the market crashes I might consider.

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    Veteran Member ixulescu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriato View Post
    Toyota, Daimler AG and Volkswagen probably have largest market caps than Tesla, I am unable to check them at the moment though. And yes, other established brands have more assets and equity but like you said Tesla is growing rapidly, mostly due to the fact that it is much more than just a mere car company. Their lithium-ion batteries have the potential to be way more profitable than their entire car business sector. We shall see. Like I have said I am reluctant to invest on Tesla right now because the stocks are overvalued (imo) due to outsized optimism. When the market crashes I might consider.
    Definitely Tesla is gunning for the largest auto manufacturer cap, largest battery manufacturer, largest solar panel producer etc.
    But Tesla stock is going to be volatile for a long time, because they'll rarely show profit. They put all their money in R&D and infrastructure, like SpaceX does.

    Look at what happened with SpaceX. They started from scratch 15 years and now they have 65% of the global satellite launching market. Considering that satellite launching is filled with state actors, a much larger share might not even be possible. It's incredible what they achieved in such a short time.

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    Veteran Member ixulescu's Avatar
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    @Viriato,

    I found the market capitalization for Daimler and Volkswagen, they're at roughly $60 billion and $85 billion respectively.

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    auringon syy & syy Harkonnen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriato View Post
    Toyota, Daimler AG and Volkswagen probably have largest market caps than Tesla, I am unable to check them at the moment though. And yes, other established brands have more assets and equity but like you said Tesla is growing rapidly, mostly due to the fact that it is much more than just a mere car company. Their lithium-ion batteries have the potential to be way more profitable than their entire car business sector. We shall see. Like I have said I am reluctant to invest on Tesla right now because the stocks are overvalued (imo) due to outsized optimism. When the market crashes I might consider.
    I have understood that Panasonic makes the batteries for Tesla. If Panasonic wants it can sell the same batteries for other manufacturers. I also don't believe there is anything that revolutionary about those batteries that it can't be replicated or improved by other players.
    Gunz is all that matters



    Quote Originally Posted by Veslan View Post
    Could be Mongoloid or Cro-Magnon influence.

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