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Thank you. That's a really interesting model.Originally Posted by Peterski
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I agree. But saying that they don't have any Celtic would be wrong. They have doube-digits % of Celtic ancestry.
By they way:
RISE150 (Silesian Unetice sample) is so similar to British Beakers, that you wouldn't notice if a population like RISE150 migrated to Britain and replaced the local Beaker descendants. So this is another possibility - that Celts from the continent were very similar to British Beakers, so replacement is "invisible".
This is what Grace's mom scores after adding RISE150 (Silesia Unetice culture - Proto-Celtic culture perhaps?):
Grace-Mom
Poland-BronzeAge-RISE150 42.50
Beakers-Britain-Avg 28.00
Sigtuna-VikingAge-Avg 14.30
Hallstatt-Celt-DA111-low 14.05
Ballynhatty-Neolithic 1.15
Hallstatt-Celt-DA111-high 0.00
Hallstatt-Celt-DA112 0.00
Hallstatt-Celts-Avg 0.00
Sweden-IronAge-RISE174 0.00
Rathlin1-BronzeAge 0.00
Those Med-shifted Romano-Celts (Romano-Britons) were rather ABSORBED by Anglo-Saxons, which is what made modern South-East English more Med-shifted:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-43712587
Quote: "Most people from south-east Britain still trace most of their ancestry to the Beaker people, but the later mixing event had a bigger impact than Medieval Anglo-Saxon migrations - traditionally seen as the foundation point of English history.
Prof Reich said his team currently had three working hypotheses to explain the result. While the Beakers replaced around 90% of the ancestry in Britain, it's possible that a pocket (or pockets) of Neolithic farmers held out in isolation somewhere for hundreds of years.
During the Iron Age (which began around 3,000 years ago), they mixed back in with the general population, diluting the Beakers' genetic background with a type of ancestry that's now stronger around the Mediterranean than in Northern or Central Europe.
Alternatively, the genetic data may be hinting at a separate migration from continental Europe during the Iron Age - perhaps one that brought Celtic languages into Britain.
The third possibility is that scholars have simply underestimated the genetic impact of the Roman occupation, which lasted in Britain from AD 43 until 410. Roman settlers from the Italian peninsula would have traced a large proportion of their ancestry to Neolithic farmers like those that inhabited Britain before the arrival of the Beaker people."
^^^
This is something that I noticed long before David Reich noticed it:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post5762343
Modern South-East English are more southern-shifted than both Insular Celts and than Early Anglo-Saxons:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...c-nor-Germanic
RISE150 was north of the Sudetes and 1885-1693 BC, Hallstatt (DA111, DA112) was south of the Sudetes and 850-700 BC (one thousand years later). Proto-Celtic ethnogenesis according to linguists was ca. 3200 years ago (or around 1200 BC), so DA111 and DA112 are too young to be Proto-Celts:
Kit number - F999948
RISE150 is slightly too old to be Proto-Celtic, but maybe populations genetically like RISE150 persisted until 3200 years ago?
Last edited by Peterski; 02-05-2019 at 03:18 PM. Reason: merging posts
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Exactly. Bell-Beakers were not Germanic, they were a pre-Germanic population.
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This is true, I think British Isles is their own thing, they are closer to continental Germanics than any continental Celtics however
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This may mean that over time the continental Celtics mixed with Slavs and other groups.
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Having some Germanic admixture doesn't make a whole people "fake celts"...but yes, I suppose the idea that Iron Age celts didn't contribute a terribly high amount (or as much as may be assumed) to the isles is more relevant here. I see some good answers in this thread, no need to repeat.
On a mostly related note, One of my best friends was recently assigned R-L2 as a paternal haplo (his paternal lineage is German, likely Bavarian). Can it be assumed that north and westward expansions of this were mostly from a La Tene' heritage?
Last edited by CordedWhelp; 02-16-2019 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Clarity/Potential for wrong interpretation of meaning
"3:16 For YHWH so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.."
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It is possible: but from wikipedia DNA history of the British Isles:
Possible influence of Celtic Migrations
Little is know about the introduction of Celtic languages to the British Isles, though an increase in Mediterranean/Neolithic DNA into South England during the Iron age suggest that a more southern shifted population than that of the Rhine Beakers was introduced. Celtic Speakers associated with what is now South Germany and France may have been carriers of more Neolithic DNA than the British Beakers who show more affinity with populations in what is now Scandinavia, North Germany and the Netherlands. It is also likely that Roman input into the Gene pool of south England has been underestimated. [9]
It is likely Celts came in as an invasion and the Irish are not really celts in any Genetic sense. They many be nordwestbloc-ish people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock
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Late Bronze Age Caledonians were very much like modern Insular Celts:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ge-Caledonians
Early Bronze Age (Pre-Norse) Orcadians were already "Germanic-like":
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...kney-Islanders
Ancient Orcadians were similar to Danes long before any Viking raids there.
Today they are more Norwegian-shifted, since Norwegian Vikings settled there.
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are you concerned you are not a real celt, just a proto north indo european larping as one?
(that much cooler than being a celt anyway)
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Celts and Germanics are like Chinese and Arabs different.
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