Balts closer to proto-Slavs than modern Slavs ?

[Smaug]

There was supposedly a Baltic tribe called Goliadz or Goladz living in the middle of Russia, see the map below:



^^^
But how do we know that DA29 was from there, and not from Balts in more western areas at the Baltic Sea?



When you compare Bronze Age Lithuanians (they were all R1a) and Medieval Lithuanian (sample DA171, he was N1c), then you can see that Medieval Lithuanian had some extra admixture from a Karelian-like or a Mordvin-like source. So probably Balts got N1c from Ugro-Finns or some population related to Ugro-Finns:









https://youtu.be/0x_wUQKvosM?t=6515

Yes, those are the Galindians, the tribe I was talking about.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Balts score higher values for both Baltic and Eastern Euro admixture on gedmatch, compared with Slavs.

[Voskos]

I had a slovenian serb friend on this forum but he aint posting no more. He used to refer to baltid phenotype as Balpigtid.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Balts score higher values for both Baltic and Eastern Euro admixture on gedmatch, compared with Slavs.

And northern Euro is not strange for them, especially Latvians. Most of Latvians has some (even recent) ancestor from Sweden.

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

And northern Euro is not strange for them, especially Latvians. Most of Latvians has some (even recent) ancestor from Sweden.

Really ? On gedmatch they don't show Scandinavian shift

1 Baltic 33.16
2 North_Sea 27.77
3 Eastern_Euro 25.41
4 Atlantic 10
5 West_Med 2.79
6 Oceanian 0.68
7 Siberian 0.12
8 Sub-Saharan 0.03
9 West_Asian 0.03


1 80.6% Estonian + 19.4% Erzya @ 7.45
2 71.9% Estonian + 28.1% Lithuanian @ 7.53
3 94.2% Estonian + 5.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 7.84
4 94.7% Estonian + 5.3% Kargopol_Russian @ 7.84
5 94% Estonian + 6% Southwest_Russian @ 7.84
6 99.2% Estonian + 0.8% Chuvash @ 7.85
7 99.9% Estonian + 0.1% Estonian_Polish @ 7.8

Admix Results (sorted):

1 Baltic 39.74
2 Eastern_Euro 24.61
3 North_Sea 18.28
4 Atlantic 11.86
5 East_Med 2.8
6 West_Med 1.41
7 South_Asian 1.21
8 Northeast_African 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

1 Lithuanian 6.14
2 Belorussian 9.42
3 Estonian_Polish 9.95
4 Southwest_Russian 10.61
5 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.2
6 Russian_Smolensk 11.77
7 Estonian 12.5
8 Erzya 13.26
9 Polish 13.63
10 Kargopol_Russian 14.17
11 Ukrainian 14.38
12 South_Polish 14.99
13 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.13
14 East_Finnish 18.89
15 Croatian 20.38
16 Finnish 20.51
17 Moldavian 21.85
18 La_Brana-1 21.92
19 Southwest_Finnish 22.36
20 Hungarian 23.23

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 91.5% Lithuanian + 8.5% Erzya @ 6.04
2 98.8% Lithuanian + 1.2% Mari @ 6.12
3 99.2% Lithuanian + 0.8% MA-1 @ 6.12
4 98.9% Lithuanian + 1.1% Chuvash @ 6.13
5 100% Lithuanian + 0% Abhkasian @ 6.14
6 100% Lithuanian + 0% Adygei @ 6.14
7 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Hazara @ 6.14
8 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 6.14
9 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 6.14
10 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.14
11 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 6.14
12 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian @ 6.14
13 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.14
14 100% Lithuanian + 0% Altaian @ 6.14
15 100% Lithuanian + 0% Anzick-1 @ 6.14
16 100% Lithuanian + 0% Armenian @ 6.14
17 100% Lithuanian + 0% Ashkenazi @ 6.14
18 100% Lithuanian + 0% Assyrian @ 6.14
19 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austrian @ 6.14
20 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austroasiatic_Ho @ 6.14

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Really ? On gedmatch they don't show Scandinavian shift

1 Baltic 33.16
2 North_Sea 27.77
3 Eastern_Euro 25.41
4 Atlantic 10
5 West_Med 2.79
6 Oceanian 0.68
7 Siberian 0.12
8 Sub-Saharan 0.03
9 West_Asian 0.03


1 80.6% Estonian + 19.4% Erzya @ 7.45
2 71.9% Estonian + 28.1% Lithuanian @ 7.53
3 94.2% Estonian + 5.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 7.84
4 94.7% Estonian + 5.3% Kargopol_Russian @ 7.84
5 94% Estonian + 6% Southwest_Russian @ 7.84
6 99.2% Estonian + 0.8% Chuvash @ 7.85
7 99.9% Estonian + 0.1% Estonian_Polish @ 7.8

Admix Results (sorted):

1 Baltic 39.74
2 Eastern_Euro 24.61
3 North_Sea 18.28
4 Atlantic 11.86
5 East_Med 2.8
6 West_Med 1.41
7 South_Asian 1.21
8 Northeast_African 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

1 Lithuanian 6.14
2 Belorussian 9.42
3 Estonian_Polish 9.95
4 Southwest_Russian 10.61
5 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.2
6 Russian_Smolensk 11.77
7 Estonian 12.5
8 Erzya 13.26
9 Polish 13.63
10 Kargopol_Russian 14.17
11 Ukrainian 14.38
12 South_Polish 14.99
13 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.13
14 East_Finnish 18.89
15 Croatian 20.38
16 Finnish 20.51
17 Moldavian 21.85
18 La_Brana-1 21.92
19 Southwest_Finnish 22.36
20 Hungarian 23.23

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 91.5% Lithuanian + 8.5% Erzya @ 6.04
2 98.8% Lithuanian + 1.2% Mari @ 6.12
3 99.2% Lithuanian + 0.8% MA-1 @ 6.12
4 98.9% Lithuanian + 1.1% Chuvash @ 6.13
5 100% Lithuanian + 0% Abhkasian @ 6.14
6 100% Lithuanian + 0% Adygei @ 6.14
7 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Hazara @ 6.14
8 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Pashtun @ 6.14
9 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Tadjik @ 6.14
10 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.14
11 100% Lithuanian + 0% Afghan_Uzbeki @ 6.14
12 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian @ 6.14
13 100% Lithuanian + 0% Algerian_Jewish @ 6.14
14 100% Lithuanian + 0% Altaian @ 6.14
15 100% Lithuanian + 0% Anzick-1 @ 6.14
16 100% Lithuanian + 0% Armenian @ 6.14
17 100% Lithuanian + 0% Ashkenazi @ 6.14
18 100% Lithuanian + 0% Assyrian @ 6.14
19 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austrian @ 6.14
20 100% Lithuanian + 0% Austroasiatic_Ho @ 6.14

Is that 1 example?

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Is that 1 example?

2

[Peterski]

And northern Euro is not strange for them, especially Latvians. Most of Latvians has some (even recent) ancestor from Sweden.

I don't think so, modern Balts are not much different than Bronze Age and Medieval ones:

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map.../53.411/24.857

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

moar Latvians

1 Baltic 37.27
2 North_Sea 23.33
3 Eastern_Euro 21.82
4 Atlantic 14.16
5 West_Med 2.9
6 Sub-Saharan 0.31
7 Oceanian 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

1 Lithuanian 3.62
2 Belorussian 7.07
3 Estonian 7.65
4 Estonian_Polish 7.95
5 Southwest_Russian 9.31
6 Russian_Smolensk 9.77
7 Polish 9.93
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.15
9 Ukrainian 11.07
10 South_Polish 11.6
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.89
12 Kargopol_Russian 13.31
13 Erzya 13.98
14 East_Finnish 15.82
15 Finnish 16.05
16 Southwest_Finnish 17.66
17 Croatian 18.05
18 La_Brana-1 18.35
19 Hungarian 19.85
20 Moldavian 19.95

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 85.2% Lithuanian + 14.8% Estonian @ 3.42
2 97.8% Lithuanian + 2.2% West_Norwegian @ 3.56
3 97.4% Lithuanian + 2.6% North_Swedish @ 3.57
4 97.7% Lithuanian + 2.3% Swedish @ 3.57
5 98.1% Lithuanian + 1.9% Norwegian @ 3.58
6 97% Lithuanian + 3% Finnish @ 3.59
7 99% Lithuanian + 1% East_Finnish @ 3.62
8 99.3% Lithuanian + 0.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 3.62
9 99.6% Lithuanian + 0.4% North_Dutch @ 3.62
10 99.7% Lithuanian + 0.3% Orcadian @ 3.62

Admix Results (sorted):

1 Baltic 36
2 Eastern_Euro 24.67
3 North_Sea 21.22
4 Atlantic 11.69
5 West_Med 3.67
6 West_Asian 1.33
7 Red_Sea 1.11
8 Oceanian 0.31

Single Population Sharing:

1 Lithuanian 4.91
2 Belorussian 7.25
3 Estonian_Polish 7.46
4 Southwest_Russian 8.08
5 Ukrainian_Belgorod 8.73
6 Estonian 9.14
7 Russian_Smolensk 9.52
8 Polish 10.34
9 Ukrainian 10.78
10 Erzya 11.1
11 Kargopol_Russian 11.45
12 South_Polish 11.73
13 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.74
14 East_Finnish 15.48
15 Finnish 16.91
16 Croatian 17.73
17 Southwest_Finnish 18.83
18 Moldavian 19.08
19 La_Brana-1 19.71
20 Hungarian 20.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 79.8% Lithuanian + 20.2% Erzya @ 4.16
2 94.1% Lithuanian + 5.9% Chuvash @ 4.52
3 95.6% Lithuanian + 4.4% Mari @ 4.59
4 86.7% Lithuanian + 13.3% Kargopol_Russian @ 4.64
5 98.2% Lithuanian + 1.8% MA-1 @ 4.82
6 94.5% Lithuanian + 5.5% East_Finnish @ 4.83
7 99.2% Lithuanian + 0.8% Selkup @ 4.87
8 91.8% Lithuanian + 8.2% Southwest_Russian @ 4.87
9 94.5% Lithuanian + 5.5% Ukrainian @ 4.88
10 93.3% Lithuanian + 6.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.88
11 99.1% Lithuanian + 0.9% Shors @ 4.88
12 98% Lithuanian + 2% Tatar @ 4.88
13 99.4% Lithuanian + 0.6% Ket @ 4.89
14 99.5% Lithuanian + 0.5% Hakas @ 4.9
15 96.2% Lithuanian + 3.8% Estonian @ 4.9
16 98.7% Lithuanian + 1.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.91
17 99.8% Lithuanian + 0.2% Tabassaran @ 4.91

Took them from here: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...dmatch-results

[Arhat]

Balts are not closer to Proto-Slavs than modern (north) Slavs. Proto-Slavs already were more southern shifted than Balts because of Cental European admixture from East Germanics (Bastarnae,..) From this source Proto-Slavs maybe also got their I2a-Din.