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Thread: Map of European Peoples - 2000 AD

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Lábaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aherne View Post
    Ethnicity is not about feelings, remember? An ethnic group is a scientific clustering of humans based on a combination of linguistic AND cultural AND racial bonds.

    100% Agree.

    Espada tengo. Lo demás, Dios lo remedie.

    In the west almost all Spain had been subjugated, except that part which adjoins the cliffs where the Pyrenees end and is washed by the nearer waters of the ocean. Here two powerful nations, the Cantabrians and the Asturians, lived in freedom from the rule of Rome.")
    — Lucius Anneus Florus , Epitome de T. Livio Bellorum omnium annorum DCC Libri duo Bellum Cantabricum et Asturicum


    Ethnicity of the Celts/Iberian. Tribes: Avariginos, Blendi, Concanos, Coniscos, Orgenomescos, Plentusios, Tamáricos and Vadinienses.--->http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...40#post3047240

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    In this 1914 map you can clearly see the Serbs dominate Northern Vardarska with ethnic Slavic Macedonians in the south.



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    Veteran Member Ushtari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    More Bulgarian propaganda. The Slavic Macedonians never called themselves Serb or Bulgarian and only identified as either following political trends in the Balkans. When the Bulgarians came to rule Slavic Macedonians, they would call themselves Bulgarians and when the Serbs came, they would call themselves Serbs. The language they speak is not a Bulgarian dialect but rather a distinct language with Bulgarian and Serbian influences. Would you call Slovak a dialect of Polish or Ukrainian a dialect of Russian?

    However, Vardarska has been part of Serbia since 1912 and therefore it is Serbian whereas Vardarska hasn't been part of Bulgaria since the medieval ages except for short occupation periods in WW1 and WW2.
    Bullshit


    http://multitree.linguistlist.org/codes/003


    http://books.google.com/books?id=_kn...donian&f=false

    Its simple, they were called Bulgarians prior 40's by their neighbors and rest of the world. In Albania there lived a minority of Slavs that was called Bulgarians by the Albanians, but in recent times it have been changed to Macedonians? identity crises? It its commonly known that slavo-macedonian is an Bulgarian dialect.

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    My Countship is not of this world Comte Arnau's Avatar
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    Another from 1914.



    And a pearl from Eupedia.

    < La Catalogne peut se passer de l'univers entier, et ses voisins ne peuvent se passer d'elle. > Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
    Well, some wiser considerations.

    Going by ethnogeneses, the Latin South-West should be something like this:

    Hm... I think that map is too much post-Reconquest centered, don't you agree? there's a much more complicated substractum.

    I would say that Castela is a point of convergence between the East and West. I'd say that Castillians have their own reality distinct from the West, centered in the hinterland.

    It's curious to assess that in terms of linguistics, we Portuguese are not so acquainted with Catalan because of centuries of isolationm, but if you put someone who had never had contact with castillian or catalan, catalan will be phonetically easier to discern, you know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
    lol, this is quite funny. Who produced it? What's the origin, I mean - I know it isn't a Photoshop job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushtari View Post
    Bullshit


    http://multitree.linguistlist.org/codes/003


    http://books.google.com/books?id=_kn...donian&f=false

    Its simple, they were called Bulgarians prior 40's by their neighbors and rest of the world. In Albania there lived a minority of Slavs that was called Bulgarians by the Albanians, but in recent times it have been changed to Macedonians? identity crises? It its commonly known that slavo-macedonian is an Bulgarian dialect.
    1. After Serbia retook Vardarska in the liberation wars; the inhabitants of Vardarska were so happy because they considered themselves to be no different to Serbs. Unlike Bulgaria when it illegally annexed Vardarska in WW1 and WW2, there were revolutionary groups that tried to throw off the Bulgarian yoke.

    2. It's true that Slavic Macedonians (Macedonian purely in a geographic sense dating back to Ottoman times when the region was called Macedonia by the Ottomans) never identified overwhelmingly as Serb or Bulgarian because ethnogenesis of Slavs in Macedonia never happened. They were just Slavs from the Carpathians living in Macedonia as peasants.

    3. Macedonian language, of course, was never offered the distinction because it was the language of peasants in Vardarska and Macedonia. Of course, they're going to consider it a dialect of Serb/Bulgarian, whatever because there was no Macedonian nobility since ethnogenesis never took place.

    4. If no Macedonian consciousness existed before the Communist period then do explain the existence of men like Chento who tried to fight for a free Macedonia long before Communism ever took place?

    5. Vardarska has always been important part of Serbia since time immemorial. It was where Tsar Dusan (unarguably the greatest Serbian leader) was crowned Caesar and Skoplje was the capital of the Serbian Empire. Northern Vardarska should be annexed to Serbia whereas Southern portions can go to either Bulgaria or Greece for all I care.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
    Another from 1914.



    BAD MAP! Just look at England.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Arnau View Post
    And a pearl from Eupedia.

    What sort of crap map is that?

    Central Norwegians... Slavo-Germanic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
    Hm... I think that map is too much post-Reconquest centered, don't you agree? there's a much more complicated substractum.
    You mean in Iberia? Well, the current situation of distinct ethnicities goes back indeed to the formation of different Neolatin groups that got expanded thanks to the Reconquest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
    I would say that Castela is a point of convergence between the East and West. I'd say that Castillians have their own reality distinct from the West, centered in the hinterland.
    Today, yes. But the original Kingdom of Asturias hosted Asturians proper, Gallaecians and Proto-Castilians. Hence why Portuguese, Asturian and Castilian/Spanish are so close linguistically and in other aspects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
    It's curious to assess that in terms of linguistics, we Portuguese are not so acquainted with Catalan because of centuries of isolationm, but if you put someone who had never had contact with castillian or catalan, catalan will be phonetically easier to discern, you know?
    Phonetically, Catalan and Portuguese are richer than Castilian because they preserved much of the medieval phonology, while Castilian simplified it in the Middle Ages, adopting sounds that are alien to the rest of Romance languages, like their j and z.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyn View Post
    lol, this is quite funny. Who produced it? What's the origin, I mean - I know it isn't a Photoshop job.
    Völkerkarte von Sudosteuropa, L. Ravenstein.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pallantides View Post
    What sort of crap map is that?
    Tell that to Eupedia!
    < La Catalogne peut se passer de l'univers entier, et ses voisins ne peuvent se passer d'elle. > Voltaire

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