Are European Jews just converted Romans?

[Balboa]

Yes it's the most agreed origin between scholars, when the Jews got kicked out of Sicily and southern Italy which used to be hotspots for Jews they moved to eastern europe, this is why they cluster so much with Greeks and Southern Italians, because essentially they are Jewish Calabrians and Sicilians

[Nurzat]

still, when someone has a hint of Jewish ancestry they show Levantine populations in their mix with G25 - they can be successfully modelled with southern Italians as well, but the populations the calculators pick first are Levantine/Canaanite, which I think shows that is the defining underlying ancestral component of Jews

[Leto]

I wonder if a hypothetical person that is 62.5% Southern Italian, 25% Lebanese and 12.5% Polish would plot firmly in the Ashkenazi Jewish cluster.

[Melkiirs]

I wonder if a hypothetical person that is 62.5% Southern Italian, 25% Lebanese and 12.5% Polish would plot firmly in the Ashkenazi Jewish cluster.

Using Sicilian_Central, Lebanese_Christian, and Polish G25 averages, that hypothetical indivudal clusters closer to most Ashkenazi Jews than my somewhat atypical father does with his East Eurasian shift.

PCA:

Spoiler!

Distances:

Spoiler!

Distance to: HypotheticalAJ
0.01130658 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.01217783 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.01406453 Sicilian_Central
0.01615971 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.01650861 Ashkenazi_Austria
0.01672427 Ashkenazi_Latvia
0.01714260 Ashkenazi_Belarus
0.01756888 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.01767011 Sicilian_East_Syracuse
0.01823698 Sicilian_East
0.02025238 Italian_Campania
0.02084053 Greek_Crete
0.02094731 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02103036 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.02106353 Italian_Apulia
0.02126152 Italian_Calabria
0.02126490 Maltese
0.02205049 Italian_Basilicata
0.02235129 Sicilian_West
0.02239385 Sicilian_West_Trapani
0.02251614 Ashkenazi_France
0.02340583 Greek_Crete_Lasithi
0.02439209 Greek_Apulia
0.02476588 Greek_Crete_Chania
0.02477672 Italian_Abruzzo

Distance to: MilkanerDad_scaled(Ashkenazi)
0.01977926 Ashkenazi_Latvia
0.02005508 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02141832 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02159262 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02512617 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02517638 Ashkenazi_Austria
0.02633920 Ashkenazi_Belarus
0.02636401 Sicilian_Central
0.03297580 Sicilian_East
0.03315599 Sicilian_East_Syracuse
0.03337725 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03411222 Sicilian_West_Trapani
0.03424256 Ashkenazi_France
0.03443390 Sicilian_West
0.03457081 Maltese
0.03562759 Greek_Crete
0.03567868 Greek_Crete_Lasithi
0.03581059 Greek_Crete_Chania
0.03692774 Greek_Crete_Heraklion
0.03699750 Italian_Campania
0.03718848 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.03724997 Italian_Apulia
0.03756266 Italian_Calabria
0.03759855 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.03767738 Italian_Jew

[Leto]

Using Sicilian_Central, Lebanese_Christian, and Polish G25 averages, that hypothetical indivudal clusters closer to most Ashkenazi Jews than my somewhat atypical father does with his East Eurasian shift.

PCA:

Spoiler!

Distances:

Spoiler!

Distance to: HypotheticalAJ
0.01130658 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.01217783 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.01406453 Sicilian_Central
0.01615971 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.01650861 Ashkenazi_Austria
0.01672427 Ashkenazi_Latvia
0.01714260 Ashkenazi_Belarus
0.01756888 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.01767011 Sicilian_East_Syracuse
0.01823698 Sicilian_East
0.02025238 Italian_Campania
0.02084053 Greek_Crete
0.02094731 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.02103036 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.02106353 Italian_Apulia
0.02126152 Italian_Calabria
0.02126490 Maltese
0.02205049 Italian_Basilicata
0.02235129 Sicilian_West
0.02239385 Sicilian_West_Trapani
0.02251614 Ashkenazi_France
0.02340583 Greek_Crete_Lasithi
0.02439209 Greek_Apulia
0.02476588 Greek_Crete_Chania
0.02477672 Italian_Abruzzo

Distance to: MilkanerDad_scaled(Ashkenazi)
0.01977926 Ashkenazi_Latvia
0.02005508 Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.02141832 Ashkenazi_Poland
0.02159262 Ashkenazi_Russia
0.02512617 Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.02517638 Ashkenazi_Austria
0.02633920 Ashkenazi_Belarus
0.02636401 Sicilian_Central
0.03297580 Sicilian_East
0.03315599 Sicilian_East_Syracuse
0.03337725 Ashkenazi_Germany
0.03411222 Sicilian_West_Trapani
0.03424256 Ashkenazi_France
0.03443390 Sicilian_West
0.03457081 Maltese
0.03562759 Greek_Crete
0.03567868 Greek_Crete_Lasithi
0.03581059 Greek_Crete_Chania
0.03692774 Greek_Crete_Heraklion
0.03699750 Italian_Campania
0.03718848 Greek_Deep_Mani
0.03724997 Italian_Apulia
0.03756266 Italian_Calabria
0.03759855 Greek_North_Tsakonia
0.03767738 Italian_Jew

So you have somehow generated that specific mix that I suggested? Interesting. It is pretty much an average Eastern Ashkenazi. However I would use Calabria instead, the most Middle Eastern-shifted province in Italy.

Perhaps the origin of the Ashkenazim is rather something of that kind and not the Lebanese-North Italian meme.

[Melkiirs]

So you have somehow generated that specific mix that I suggested? Interesting. It is pretty much an average Eastern Ashkenazi. However I would use Calabria instead, the most Middle Eastern-shifted province in Italy.

Perhaps the origin of the Ashkenazim is rather something of that kind and not the Lebanese-North Italian meme.

Generating predicated G25 coordinates for a certain mixture can easily be done using this tool and the official datasheet:
https://dna-tools.xyz/

I used Sicilian_Central just because it produces the best fit among Italian regions combined with Lebanese_Christian and Polish. Central Sicily is still closer to Greeks than the other Sicilian averages.

Regarding North Italians of Late Antiquity being the primary source of Southern Euro admixture admixture there is not evidence either historical or genetic (e.g. IBD sharing). The Southern European admixture likely dates back to Hellenistic Judaism.