Would Europe have been better off if the Axis won the Second World War?

[Anthony PV]

Smeagol seems to ignore the fact that the Allies were ethnic nationalists themselves. For instance, the fact that Winston Churchill was staunchly opposed to Nazi Germany did not prevent him from using the slogan 'KEEP ENGLAND WHITE' in a post-WW2 political campaign to restrict Black immigrants from the Caribbeans from coming to Britain.

[Peterski]

Poland is better off in OTL (Our Time Line) scenario than in such alternative scenario. Of course probably the best outcome for Poles would be if something similar to WW1 happened - a scenario in which both Russia and Germany lose the war (like in WW1). But I don't think it was possible.

If the Axis managed to defeat the Soviets, then it would be impossible for the Allies to win the war on the Western Front.

[Tooting Carmen]

Soviet Russia was not as genocidal as Nazi Germany, or at least not towards Non-Russians.

Stalin killed more Russians than he killed Non-Russians, which makes Soviet rules a better scenario for Europe.

Ukrainian famine, Katyn, mass deportations of Georgians and Chechens, the mass rapes and mass murders in Eastern Europe especially until the 60's... Granted, none of that quite compares to the Nazi Holocaust, but still the USSR was far from being a vicar's tea party and certainly its crimes and oppression get severely downplayed compared to Nazi Germany.

[Tooting Carmen]

Smeagol seems to ignore the fact that the Allies were ethnic nationalists themselves. For instance, the fact that Winston Churchill was staunchly opposed to Nazi Germany did not prevent him from using the slogan 'KEEP ENGLAND WHITE' in a post-WW2 political campaign to restrict Black immigrants from the Caribbeans from coming to Britain.

Indeed, Churchill's own attitudes towards Blacks and Jews in particular were seen by many in Britain as quite extreme even for his time and not actually that different to Hitler's.

[Peterski]

Ukrainian famine, Katyn, mass deportations of Georgians and Chechens, the mass rapes and mass murders in Eastern Europe especially until the 60's... Granted, none of that quite compares to the Nazi Holocaust, but still the USSR was far from being a vicar's tea party and certainly its crimes and oppression get severely downplayed compared to Nazi Germany.

Ukrainian famine was long before WW2. Katyn is a small-scale crime compared to what the Germans did.

Piasnica Massacres alone killed as many people as Katyn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac..._Pia%C5%9Bnica

The mass rapes is largely a myth spread by Neo-Nazi revisionists, at least outside of Germany. I'm not aware of any Red Army rapes on Polish women, for example.

But even in Germany those were not rapes but opportunistic German women dating Red Army officers because they wanted better living standards under occupation.

Soviet murders were not targeting people based on ethnicity, but based on political beliefs, which is better (you can hide your beliefs but not your race/ethnicity).

[Peterski]

the USSR was far from being a vicar's tea party and certainly its crimes and oppression get severely downplayed compared to Nazi Germany.

In the 1930s the USSR was definitely considered a more barbaric and criminal regime than Nazi Germany.

Which is why Poland was considering Anti-Soviet alliance with Germany, not because we were Anti-Semitic as modern Western Leftist propaganda claims.

However, what Germany did in 1939-1945 surpassed anything that Soviet Union did in the 1920s-1930s.

[Tooting Carmen]

Ukrainian famine was long before WW2. Katyn is a small-scale crime compared to what the Germans did.

Piasnica Massacres alone killed as many people as Katyn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac..._Pia%C5%9Bnica

The mass rapes is largely a myth spread by Neo-Nazi revisionists, at least outside of Germany. I'm not aware of any Red Army rapes on Polish women, for example.

But even in Germany those were not rapes but opportunistic German women dating Red Army officers because they wanted better living standards under occupation.

Soviet murders were not targeting people based on ethnicity, but based on political beliefs.

But my basic point is that it is very far from the truth that the Soviet dictatorship only really oppressed and murdered Russians and no one else to any appreciable degree. Factor in also the appalling dictatorships across the developing world they supported (mind you, so did the US) and its foreign policy and behaviour was extremely far from benign. And while the Soviets may have murdered people based on political beliefs, social class and economic status rather than race and nationality, at the end of the day if you're dead, you're dead regardless of the supposed reason.

[Tooting Carmen]

In the 1930s the USSR was definitely considered a more barbaric and criminal regime than Nazi Germany.

Not by the Western powers it wasn't.

[Peterski]

Not by the Western powers it wasn't.

It was, which is why Britain applied Appeasement policy to Nazi Germany and did not care about Germany's violations of one Versailles provision after another. France and Britain allowed Germany to annex Saarland, remilitarize the Rhineland, rebuild the Army, annex Austria, annex Sudetenland, occupy entire Czechoslovakia, etc.

Germany expanded its territory twice without firing a single shot between 1935 and August 1939, and Western Allies did nothing about it.

But my basic point is that it is very far from the truth that the Soviet dictatorship only really oppressed and murdered Russians

I didn't say that only Russians but mostly Russians. Nazi Germany planned to exterminate entire ethnic groups in Eastern Europe (see Generalplan Ost).

After ca. 50 years of Soviet domination all the ethnic groups are still here, so OTL history itself proved that the Soviets were not worse than the Nazis.

[Anthony PV]

Indeed, Churchill's own attitudes towards Blacks and Jews in particular were seen by many in Britain as quite extreme even for his time and not actually that different to Hitler's.

The point of my post was to show Smeagol and others of the same ilk of him that the Allies are not responsible for all the cultural marxist bullshit that is spread throughout the mainstream media to force Westerners to open the borders of their countries to be invaded by everyone around the globe. Not figure out who was worse between Hitler and Churchill.

Where all that cultural marxist bullshit comes from? That's up for debate but anyway, I'm pretty sure the Allies who defeated Nazi Germany would be pretty appalled about the current situation of Europe. So imagining a Nazi victory is pretty pointless.