View Poll Results: Race is a Biological Fact or a Social Construct?

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  • Biological Fact

    17 85.00%
  • Social Construct

    3 15.00%
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Thread: Race Realism - The Biological Reality of Race

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    The same doesn't apply to physical traits though. So saying that mental and physical traits are proper equivalents doesn't really work. One gets biologically passed down and thus effects populations whereas another is more individualistic.
    Intelligence gets biologically passed down too, what are you on about

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    It is a fact all the people are genetically different from each other except for identical twins. These genetic differences create races but borders of races are drawn in a common sense by humans. Therefore I say both.

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    The sad fact is that the Social Darwinism caused by the patently false theory of biological Darwinism (more on that in the videos below) leads inevitably to "race realism," i.e., racism. Are there differences between the races? Absolutely! But God created each and every person exactly as He intended. What difference does it make if one race is slightly less intelligent than another, we were are all utter fools in God's eyes? Notwithstanding racial differences and the judgment that will be meted out upon specific nations, God shows no partiality among persons, which is to say that anyone of any race or ethnicity can receive His full grace and salvation!





    The second video is just part one. Highly recommended that you watch all four parts of Dr. McMurtry's presentation!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    Well if there is enough evidence for intelligence being linked to genetics like there is with physical traits among certain populations, then I'll consider it. I'm keeping an open mind to the possibility, but as of right now, I don't think there is enough evidence for it.

    By the way, there was a sperm bank set up by a millionaire using the sperms of only Nobel laureates in science and distributing them to intelligent women in the hopes of creating some super intelligent children. The man's name was Robert Clark Graham and he generated a lot of controversy in doing that. He didn't care though and went through with it. What ended up happening? The kids turned out more or less average. They had Nobel prize paternal genetics and intelligent maternal genetics. Nothing special ended up happening in the end. There were some intelligent kids that came out of it but some quite mediocre ones as well. In the end, they were just average.

    Here's an article on it: https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ighereducation

    Of course there are other factors involved such as pressure on the kids to do well cause of their genetics, but the diversity of intelligence among the kids shows that there is much more to this than genetics. And most importantly, it shows how physical traits and mental traits can't be equivalated. If you take a 6'4 guy and a 5'10 woman, the chances of their kids being tall are very very high. If you take two elite sprinters, the chances of their kid being one is pretty high. You can't say the same for intelligence.

    So you can still have your personal opinions about mental traits, but there isn't proof for them like there is for physical traits. Just because one thing has proof doesn't mean the other one also has proof by default. They're two very different stuff.
    The article shows there is more to intelligence than genetics, yes. But we all agree on that already. And it is that fact that explains the results of the sperm bank. I would not expect stellar results from a bunch of essentially fatherless kids with identity issues in presumably fairly unstable family environments. And even so, their results were slightly more intelligent on average. Add to that the fact that we don't know the backgrounds of the donors - they could have been anomalies in stupid families, for all we know - and I don't think this story proves much.

    In fact, there indeed seems to be evidence that genetics plays a role here:

    "For example, last year, researchers from King's College London theorized that genetic predisposition accounted for 54 to 65 percent of differences in children’s tests scores. This meant that external factors, such as what school the child attended and what type of home environment they had accounted for only 12 to 21 percent of the score differences." (https://www.medicaldaily.com/genes-v...ce-most-400640)
    "Intelligence is highly heritable"
    (https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.104)
    "The heritability of intelligence increases from about 20% in infancy to perhaps 80% in later adulthood." (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/)

    And if intelligence is heritable, it stands to reason it will vary from individual to individual and therefore across populations.

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    Race is neither Biological Fact nor a Social Construct. It's just a "friend-foe" marker.

    Each group of people who see themselves as a blood-related community is programmed to dublicate own genes as much as possible. Therefore they always need "friend-foe" markers and racial differences are very convenient "friend-foe" marker. You think why black Africans always killed their albino children.

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    damn it! they are no races,but the human species we are all homo sapiens but with different phenotypes and taxonomies,indeed the races concept is from eugenism,even you have iq disparities because that that and that,when but the social construct is where did you born if the country is quite modern who could will grow up in a better environment but the "racial" distance still exists in many cases as i a non-racist ethno-differancialist but with a white preference inflexion i am against the ethno-mixing at a large scale(in some few cases,it's irrelevant) the balkanisation of europe is very spooky,diversity is what made humanity so rich ,arts, jewerlly,paint,music,creativity in so many tribes, and want to destroy this is the biggest crime i'am very critic on the white colonialism ,especially on the spanish,because the others just will follow but the first "nazis" were the spanish and no a fucking single word of repentance like with the arawaks for example,thanks to this dumby cristof colombus
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    Many "race realists" put too much trust into racial/national stereotypes, and end up having expectations that sometimes seriously deviate from the observable reality.
    *
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Agapetos View Post



    It is fashionable to claim that race is a sociological construct and that the concept of race has no scientific basis. Common sense tells us this is wrong.

    This is a very difficult question!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myanthropologies View Post
    I'm very divided on the issue of "is race real or is it a social construct?" The reason is because in my eyes, neither view is 100% true. The problem with most people who say that race is socially constructed is that they imply that important genetic differences between human populations do not exist, when in reality, there are significant genetic differences among different groups of humans. On the flip side, that doesn't mean that those genetic differences correspond with the cateogires we westerners call "races," which are socially constructed.

    I think that the concept of "race" is old school and problematic. I really like the idea of "genetic ancestry" and "populations" a lot better. Making race a primary factor in deciding what medical treatment to give a patient or which medicine to give them can have harmful reprecussions. "Race" doesn't account for the fact that most human populations are admixed to some degree. For example, African-Americans have a decent chunk of Northwestern European ancestry. If a doctor were to assign a treatment or drug for them based on the premise that they're "black," that won't be helpful if the African-American person turns out to be 100% Northwestern European in ancestry at the gene that is related to the disease in question or the gene related to the drug response. Additionally, Africans are the most genetically diverse human population on the planet. There is sometimes more genetic difference between two different Africans than between a European and an East Asian. Therefore, what might be applicable to an West African descended person might not be to an Ethiopian descended person, despite both of them being "black." This can also be said in regards to other human populations as well. There is a lot of variation to account for under the labels of "race." That being said, it is very true that genetic ancestry influences how people experience different diseases and how they respond to different drugs, and it is important to emphasize that in a medical context. It is also important to emphasize environmental and socio-economic factors that play a role, as well.
    I think you made several good points but it's a bit more complicated than that. Most markers used in population genetics belong to 'non-coding DNA', where random mutations that are not affected by natural selections accumulate with time. If, as many researchers, early modern humans evolved in Africa 200k years ago, it makes sense that different African populations show a large variability in respect to those markers. However, if you consider the genes that affects phenotype and are selected by environment, it makes also sense that SSA populations are phenotypically similar, as they lived in a similar environment and there was still a certain gene flow between them, thus selecting for those genes that were advantageous in their environmental conditions (like dark skin).

    Regarding intelligence and mental abilities (which are not all described by IQ) it makes sense that there have been a certain selection for them too, as they may be relevant for survival. But I think that a lot of the IQ differences we observe between certain populations, like Europeans and Africans, are largely affected by conditions like access to proper food and education. For instance, a diet rich of proteins and animal fats is important for the early development of the brain. Clearly, since SSA don't have, on average, access to the same rich diet as Europeans and E. Asians, it should be expected that it reflects on their IQ scores.

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