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Thread: Cheddar Man, Mesolithic Britain

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    Default Cheddar Man, Mesolithic Britain

    I have uploaded him to GEDmatch Genesis:

    Cheddar Man England 7150 BC, GEDmatch Genesis kit number - NW6414429

    Eurogenes K36:

    137669 SNPs used in this evaluation

    Population
    Amerindian -
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque 8.81 Pct
    Central_African -
    Central_Euro -
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan -
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 17.68 Pct
    East_Med -
    Eastern_Euro 9.69 Pct
    Fennoscandian 36.88 Pct

    French -
    Iberian -
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian -
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern -
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 7.78 Pct
    North_Caucasian -
    North_Sea 19.15 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian -
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural -
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med -

    Similarity Map:


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    So where did the brown skin come from? Artistic licence?
    Nine out of ten concerns are completely unfounded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frankhammer View Post
    So where did the brown skin come from? Artistic licence?
    It wasn't artistic license. It was just a premature guess not based on conclusive evidence.

    A Briton who lived 10,000 years ago had dark brown skin and blue eyes. At least, that’s what dozens of news stories published this month – including our own – stated as fact. But one of the geneticists who performed the research says the conclusion is less certain, and according to others we are not even close to knowing the skin colour of any ancient human.

    The skeleton of Cheddar Man was discovered in 1903 in a cave in south-east England where it had lain for 10,000 years.

    Until a few weeks ago, he had always been depicted with pale skin. This makes some sense, given that people living at northern latitudes often have paler skins. The explanation may be that it allows more of the weak northerly sunlight into their skin, so they can make enough vitamin D. And it seems our species reached Europe 30,000 years before Cheddar Man lived, so his ancestors would have had plenty of time to evolve paler skins.

    But the new DNA analysis suggests that Cheddar Man may have had dark skin. Most news stories said his skin was “dark to black”.

    Giveaway genes

    To show this, researchers including Susan Walsh at Indiana University–Purdue University Indianapolis read Cheddar Man’s DNA. Walsh had helped develop a model that attempts to predict someone’s eye, hair and skin pigmentation solely from their DNA, and the team applied this model to Cheddar Man.

    The most recent version of the model was published in May 2017. It focuses on 36 spots in 16 genes, all linked to skin colour.

    To test it, Walsh and her colleagues took genetic data from over 1400 people, mainly from Europe and the US but also some from Africa and Papua New Guinea. The team used part of the data to “train” their model on how skin colour and the 36 DNA markers are linked. They then used the rest of the data to test how well the model could predict skin colour from DNA alone. The model correctly identified who had “light” skin or “dark-black” skin, with a small margin of error.

    When Walsh and her colleagues applied the model to Cheddar Man, they concluded his skin colour fell between “dark” and “dark to black”.

    Not so sure

    The research was first announced by press release, to coincide with the release of a TV documentary. It has now been posted to a preprint server.

    Walsh stresses that the study doesn’t conclusively demonstrate Cheddar Man had dark to black skin. We cannot place such confidence in the DNA analysis, she says. For one thing, Cheddar Man’s DNA has degraded over the last 10,000 years.

    “It’s not a simple statement of ‘this person was dark-skinned’,” says Walsh. “It is his most probable profile, based on current research.”

    In fact, we are not ready to predict the skin colour of prehistoric people just from their genes, says Brenna Henn at Stony Brook University, New York. That’s because the genetics of skin pigmentation turn out to be more complex than thought.

    Too many genes

    In November 2017, Henn and her colleagues published a paper exploring the genetics of skin pigmentation in populations indigenous to southern Africa – where skin colour varies more than many people appreciate. Just weeks before, a group led by Sarah Tishkoff at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia had published a paper on the genetics of skin pigmentation in people from eastern and southern Africa.

    “The conclusions were really the same,” says Henn. “Known skin pigmentation genes, discovered primarily in East Asian and European populations, don’t explain the variation in skin pigmentation in African populations. The idea that there are really only about 15 genes underlying skin pigmentation isn’t correct.”

    It now seems likely that many other genes affect skin colour. We don’t know how.

    If we are still learning about the link between genes and skin pigmentation in living populations, we can’t yet predict the skin colour of prehistoric people, says Henn.

    This debate may seem of little practical importance – although the idea that Cheddar Man was dark-skinned generated enormous public interest. However, we need to know the limitations of this sort of genetic technology.

    Police could one day plug DNA from a crime scene into one of these models to determine what a suspect looks like. Walsh’s model might succeed at this in the US, says Henn, because it was trained on DNA from people with similar ancestry to North Americans. But it may well fail elsewhere.

    Henn’s team has tested an older model that aimed to predict skin colour from DNA. When they put it to work among southern African populations, “it literally predicted that people with the darkest skins would have the lightest skin”
    https://www.newscientist.com/article...y-not-be-true/

    Here's an interesting video on the topic that goes into detail if you're interested:


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    I uploaded him to DNA Land, let's see what they report, how much coffee did he drink, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by frankhammer View Post
    So where did the brown skin come from? Artistic licence?
    I checked some of his pigmentation SNPs, but it is possible that I missed some other:

    Cheddar Man's skin pigmentation SNPs:

    rs1426654(G;G) ---> G is darker skin, modern Northern Europeans have A;A here
    rs16891982(C;C) ---> C allele is darker skin, also 7x more likely to have black hair
    rs1408799(C;C) ---> C is lighter pigmentation & higher skin cancer risk in Europeans (per SNPedia)
    rs1834640(A;A) --> associated with skin pigmentation (modern Europeans have A;A too)
    rs1800414(A;A) ---> G associated with East Asian type light skin, Non-Asians have A
    rs885479(G;G) ---> A associated with East Asian type light skin, Non-Asians have G
    rs12203592(T;T) ---> T associated with less tanning ability, common in Irish people
    rs1015362(G;G) ---> G associated with less tanning ability, Sub-Saharans have A;A

    Cheddar Man's hair & eye pigmentation:

    rs1667394(A;A) ---> A;A is blond hair and blue eyes 4x more likely
    rs12896399(G;G) ---> G;G genotype associated with lighter hair color
    rs12913832(G;G) ---> people with G;G blue eye color 99% of the time
    rs12203592(T;T) ---> T causes lighter hair & eyes, less tanning ability
    rs1800401(C;C) ---> C associated with blue/gray eyes possibility
    rs1800407(G;G) ---> G associated with blue/gray eyes possibility
    rs7495174(A;A) ---> A associated with blue/gray eyes more likely

    He lacked the first 2 listed skin depigmentation mutations that modern Europeans have. But he had some other depigmentation mutations, so I don't think that he was "black". Maybe he had a skin tone similar to what you can find today in North India, Pakistan, etc. I also don't think he was blond-haired. He had some genes which increase the likelihood of blond hair, but he also had others which increase the likelihood of black hair, I suppose they cancelled each other and produced something intermediate.
    Last edited by Peterski; 02-23-2019 at 01:33 PM.

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    So he was dark skinned and blonde at the same time if i understood right? Strange isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    So he was dark skinned and blonde at the same time if i understood right? Strange isn't it?
    He had genes which increase likelihood of blond hair but he also had genes which increase likelihood of black hair.

    So I don't think that he was blond as darker genes probably were stronger and suppressed those lighter genes.

    But he probably really had blue eyes.

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    Which population brought light skin to britain then i wonder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mingle View Post
    It wasn't artistic license. It was just a premature guess not based on conclusive evidence.
    It was being promoted on purpose. The media said 'the first Briton was black'. Normally 'black' means Sub-Saharan African and most people know nothing about things like WHG, Neolithic farmers, Yamnaya, etc. So he would supposedly have been black as modern Africans. See the new documentary on Swedish TV, 'Meet the first Swedes' featuring a black man with blue eyes in a fur coat - they're doing the same thing again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongrel View Post
    Which population brought light skin to britain then i wonder?
    Firstly the Neolithic farmers, but they weren't any lighter than modern day Sardinians. Really pale skin as Northern Europeans have today is probably of steppe derivation + positive selection over time.

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    Here is a good article: https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/...-be-published/

    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    The media said 'the first Briton was black'. Normally 'black' means Sub-Saharan African and most people know nothing about things like WHG, Neolithic farmers, Yamnaya, etc. So he was supposed to have been black as modern Africans. See the new documentary on Swedish TV, 'Meet the first Swedes' featuring a black man with blue eyes in a fur coat - they're doing the same thing again.
    "The first Briton was dark and scored 37% Fennoscandian in K36" haha:



    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    See the new documentary on Swedish TV, 'Meet the first Swedes' featuring a black man with blue eyes in a fur coat - they're doing the same thing again.
    Rather something like this, to be honest (by the way, I will also check his pigmentation SNPs):

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...er-on-GEDmatch
    Last edited by Peterski; 02-23-2019 at 01:35 PM.

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