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Thread: Bulgarians 40% Slav on average

  1. #21
    Veteran Member Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Bohemian Slav RISE569 was partially Celto-Germanic (admixture from Pre-Slavic population of Bohemia assimilated by Slavs) and RISE568 is a low quality sample.



    There are no any good Early Slavic samples so far.
    Culturally Avar samples were used by some TA members, what about them ? I don't even think we need actual ancient samples, some modern groups would do.
    Last edited by Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić; 02-25-2019 at 10:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić View Post
    Culturally Avar samples were used by some TA membrs, what about them ?
    Maybe one of them - Av2 - was unmixed Slavic, but it is hard to say for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy1 View Post
    Pre-Slavic inhabitants of Bulgaria were certainly not Cypriot like. More proximate samples are needed before any assumptions are made.
    yeah but i don't see why they should be much more northern than them. We have Iron Age dna from Bulgaria actually and this are the populations he was closest to

    Balkans_IA:Average Germany_Medieval_o STR_300 CE:495 3.732
    2 Balkans_IA:Average Germany_Medieval_o_Averaged Averaged 3.732
    3 Balkans_IA:Average Hungary_Medieval_Szolad_o1 SZ19 CE:505 4.009
    4 Balkans_IA:Average Hungary_Medieval_Szolad_o1_Averaged Averaged 4.009
    5 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Abruzzo ItalyAbruzzo22 4.037
    6 Balkans_IA:Average Mycenaean I9041 BCE:1450 4.048
    7 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Abruzzo_Averaged Averaged 4.087
    8 Balkans_IA:Average Mycenaean_Averaged Averaged 4.095
    9 Balkans_IA:Average Sicilian_East EastSicilian2H 4.099
    10 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Abruzzo ItalyAbruzzo14 4.111
    11 Balkans_IA:Average Custom AGUser_Alstrohma_Wright 4.307
    12 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Abruzzo ItalyAbruzzo15 4.33
    13 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Abruzzo ItalyAbruzzo13 4.382
    14 Balkans_IA:Average Italy_Medieval_Collegno CL121 CE:671 4.419
    15 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Abruzzo ItalyAbruzzo19 4.427
    16 Balkans_IA:Average Scythian_Hungary DA198 BCE:550 4.434
    17 Balkans_IA:Average Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ40 CE:505 4.436
    18 Balkans_IA:Average Albanian ALB212 4.438
    19 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_South ITS7 4.455
    20 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Tuscan NA20505 4.473
    21 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Tuscan_Averaged Averaged 4.474
    22 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Abruzzo ItalyAbruzzo17 4.491
    23 Balkans_IA:Average Italian_Abruzzo ItalyAbruzzo16 4.496
    24 Balkans_IA:Average Custom AGUser_Dibran 4.576

    And this was before the Roman period when many people from the Eastern Mediterranea came into the region

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arhat View Post
    We have Iron Age dna from Bulgaria actually
    I uploaded this sample to GEDmatch:

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...Age-Balkan-DNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić View Post
    We got early Slav samples from Bohemia and Avar-Slavic ones, also Iron Age Bulgarian so it shouldn't be too hard to make nMonte model. Add Bulgars and Myceneans in the mix if they are available.
    As far as i know we have two early Slavs from Avar Hungary and two from Slavic Bohemia. One was West Slavic-like and the other Belarusian-like. In Slavic Bohemia one was also West Slavic-like and other more Baltic-shifted. So i would say that Proto-Slavs were East Polish/South Belarusian-like and that very much fits archaeology and linguistics which pinpoint the slavic homeland somewhere in northern Ukraine/Belarus (Kiev culture)

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    Anthropology, Archeogenetics and Linguistics Token's Avatar
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    [1] "distance%=2.2724"
    Bulgarian
    Balkans_IA,52.4
    Avar_Hungary_Szolad,47.6


    [1] "distance%=2.4686"
    Bulgarian
    Slavic_Bohemia,53.4
    Balkans_IA,46.6


    The Slavic Avar fits better than Slavic_Bohemia, but the difference isn't very statistically significant. Adding Mycenaeans improves the fit considerably.

    [1] "distance%=1.9243"
    Bulgarian
    Avar_Hungary_Szolad,52.6
    Mycenaean,35.2
    Balkans_IA,12.2


    40% Slavic doesn't seems to be that far from reality, actually they probably have even more (too much shared IBD with Northeast Europeans).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić View Post
    Balto-Slavs were probably originally the same.
    "Originally" - probably true, but that was during the Bronze Age.

    During the Late Iron Age they were probably already different.

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    Veteran Member Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    [1] "distance%=1.9243"
    Bulgarian
    Avar_Hungary_Szolad,52.6
    Mycenaean,35.2
    Balkans_IA,12.2


    40% Slavic doesn't seems to be that far from reality, actually they probably have even more (too much shared IBD with Northeast Europeans).

  9. #29
    Veteran Member Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    "Originally" - probably true, but that was during the Bronze Age.

    During the Late Iron Age they were probably already different.
    Ok, but anyway seem Bulgarians are like half Slav and I made this thread when some Azeri wog said they have no NE Euro ancestry at all compared to Aryan Tajiks LMFAO




    Genetic research is Red Pill for deniers of massive Slavic rape orgy and colonisation of the Balkans.

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    Mycenaeans are too early to use them in this model IMO. We need more of Iron Age and Roman Era ancient samples.

    In 500 AD (the beginning of Slavic Invasion of the Balkans) genetically Mycenaean-like populations no longer existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Token View Post
    [1] "distance%=2.2724"
    Bulgarian
    Balkans_IA,52.4
    Avar_Hungary_Szolad,47.6
    Try using only Av2 instead of average of both Avar samples, probably the fit will improve (because Av1 was less Slavic).

    Balkans_IA is just one sample anyway, so no difference. But Avar_Hungary_Szolad is average of two samples, AFAIK.

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