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Funnily he is not even R1a or R1b himself.Originally Posted by Leto
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1. Turan is an iranicized word for non-Iranian Turanians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniran
"Anīrân (Modern Persian, انیران) or Anērān (Middle Persian, 𐭠𐭭𐭩𐭥𐭠𐭭) is an ethno-linguistic term that signifies "non-Iranian" or "non-Iran" (non-Aryan). Thus, in a general sense, 'Aniran' signifies lands where Iranian languages are not spoken."
"... Younger Avesta as anairya, where it denotes the "Turanians" ..."
"In the Shahnameh, the poet Ferdowsi draws on Zoroastrian scripture (with due attribution) and retains the association of Aneran with the Turanians. The poet, however, specifically places them beyond the Amu Darya and identifies the Turanians as "Turks". ..."
2. R1a is a typical Turkic marker:2. r1a-z93 marker is iranic:
"Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers, the people who later called themselves 'Aryans' in the Rig Veda and the Avesta, originated in the Sintashta-Petrovka culture (2100-1750 BCE), in the Tobol and Ishim valleys, east of the Ural Mountains. It was founded by pastoralist nomads from the Abashevo culture (2500-1900 BCE), ranging from the upper Don-Volga to the Ural Mountains, and the Poltavka culture (2700-2100 BCE), extending from the lower Don-Volga to the Caspian depression.
The Sintashta-Petrovka culture, associated with R1a-Z93 and its subclades, was the first Bronze Age advance of the Indo-Europeans west of the Urals, opening the way to the vast plains and deserts of Central Asia to the metal-rich Altai mountains. The Aryans quickly expanded over all Central Asia, from the shores of the Caspian to southern Siberia and the Tian Shan, through trading, seasonal herd migrations, and looting raids.
Horse-drawn war chariots seem to have been invented by Sintashta people around 2100 BCE, and quickly spread to the mining region of Bactria-Margiana (modern border of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan). Copper had been extracted intensively in the Urals, and the Proto-Indo-Iranians from Sintashta-Petrovka were exporting it in huge quantities to the Middle East. They appear to have been attracted by the natural resources of the Zeravshan valley for a Petrovka copper-mining colony was established in Tugai around 1900 BCE, and tin was extracted soon afterwards at Karnab and Mushiston. Tin was an especially valued resource in the late Bronze Age, when weapons were made of copper-tin alloy, stronger than the more primitive arsenical bronze. In the 1700's BCE, the Indo-Iranians expanded to the lower Amu Darya valley and settled in irrigation farming communities (Tazabagyab culture). By 1600 BCE, the old fortified towns of Margiana-Bactria were abandoned, submerged by the northern steppe migrants. The group of Central Asian cultures under Indo-Iranian influence is known as the Andronovo horizon, and lasted until 800 BCE.
The Indo-Iranian migrations progressed further south across the Hindu Kush. By 1700 BCE, horse-riding pastoralists had penetrated into Balochistan (south-west Pakistan). The Indus valley succumbed circa 1500 BCE, and the northern and central parts of the Indian subcontinent were taken over by 500 BCE. Westward migrations led Old Indic Sanskrit speakers riding war chariots to Assyria, where they became the Mitanni rulers from circa 1500 BCE. The Medes, Parthians and Persians, all Iranian speakers from the Andronovo culture, moved into the Iranian plateau from 800 BCE. Those that stayed in Central Asia are remembered by history as the Scythians, while the Yamna descendants who remained in the Pontic-Caspian steppe became known as the Sarmatians to the ancient Greeks and Romans.
The Indo-Iranian migrations have resulted in high R1a frequencies in southern Central Asia, Iran and the Indian subcontinent. The highest frequency of R1a (about 65%) is reached in a cluster around Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan. In India and Pakistan, R1a ranges from 15 to 50% of the population, depending on the region, ethnic group and caste. R1a is generally stronger is the North-West of the subcontinent, and weakest in the Dravidian-speaking South (Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh) and from Bengal eastward. Over 70% of the Brahmins (highest caste in Hindusim) belong to R1a1, due to a founder effect.
Maternal lineages in South Asia are, however, overwhelmingly pre-Indo-European. For instance, India has over 75% of "native" mtDNA M and R lineages and 10% of East Asian lineages. In the residual 15% of haplogroups, approximately half are of Middle Eastern origin. Only about 7 or 8% could be of "Russian" (Pontic-Caspian steppe) origin, mostly in the form of haplogroup U2 and W (although the origin of U2 is still debated). European mtDNA lineages are much more common in Central Asia though, and even in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. This suggests that the Indo-European invasion of India was conducted mostly by men through war. The first major settlement of Indo-Aryan women was in northern Pakistan, western India (Punjab to Gujarat) and northern India (Uttar Pradesh), where haplogroups U2 and W are the most common today."
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...1a_Y-DNA.shtml
Ancient Central Asia:
"The Andronovo culture is a collection of similar local Bronze Age cultures that flourished c. 2000–900 BC in western Siberia and the central Eurasian Steppe.[1] Some researchers have preferred to term it an archaeological complex or archaeological horizon.[2] The older Sintashta culture (2100–1800 BC), formerly included within the Andronovo culture, is now considered separately, but regarded as its predecessor, and accepted as part of the wider Andronovo horizon.
Most researchers associate the Andronovo horizon with early Indo-Iranian languages, though it may have overlapped the early Uralic-speaking area at its northern fringe.[3] "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture
"...haplogroup R1a and its subclade Z93. The pattern could be considered typically “Turkic”..."
http://file.scirp.org/Html/2-1590582_73563.htm
3. Andronovo is just a typical Turkic culture:
"Russian and Central Asian scholars working on the contemporary but very different Andronovo and Bactrian Margiana archaeological complexes of the 2nd millennium b.c. have identified both as Indo-Iranian, and particular sites so identified, are being used for nationalist purposes. There is, however, no compelling archaeological evidence that they had a common [Indo-European] ancestor or that either is Indo-Iranian. Ethnicity and language are not easily linked with an archaeological signature, and the identity of the Indo-Iranians remains elusive. [...]. There are serious problems in determining the chronology of the Common Altaic protolanguage. The question is not whether an Altaic protolanguage existed but how shared linguistic material due to early contacts can be distinguished from that inherited from the supposed Common Altaic. Whatever the answer to this question, it is very unlikely that in the chronological range of Andronovo and the Bactrian Margiana complex a Common Altaic (still) existed. This means that the possible languages of the bearers of these archaeological cultures can only be Turkic or Mongolian (for several reasons I would exclude Manchu-Tunguzian and other supposed Altaic languages such as Korean or Japanese).[...]. Both Proto-Turkic and Proto-Mongolian could, however, reflect a culture like the Andronovo. [.]. It is not surprising that the majority continue to hold the view that the bearers of the Andronovo culture spoke Indo-Iranian. Consensus is not, however, the hallmark of all responses. [...]. Renfrew favors an Indo-Iranian identity for the Andronovo, and he fully realizes that there is not a shred of evidence that identifies the Andronovo with the traditional homeland of the Indo-Iranian-speakers either on the Iranian Plateau or in South Asia. There is, however, clear evidence for a Bactrian Margiana presence on the Iranian Plateau (Amiet 1984, Hiebert and Lamberg-Karlovsky 1992) and in South Asia (Jarrige 1993, n.d.). [...]. Such diversity among the Andronovo appeals to me. Framing the question as what language the Andronovo spoke is, I believe, misdirected. The Andronovo was made up of many cultures subject to constant change; some may have spoken Indo-Iranian, others Proto-Turkic, and yet others Proto-Mongolian, and, pace Mallory, there may have been an occasional Finno-Ugric-speaker among the lot."
http://mapageweb.umontreal.ca/tuitek...gKarlovsky.pdf
"Thus, there is an equally valid quest in searching for the homeland and subsequent migration of the Altaic languages (Turkish, Mongolian), Ugric (Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian) - see Gamkrelidze and Ivanov for a full listings of these language families and Elamo-Dravidian. Each of these three language families have their roots on the Eurasiatic steppes and/or in Central Asia. The fact that these language families, compared to Indo-European, are of far less interest to the archaeologist with regard to the study of homeland(s) and/or subsequent spread, may have a great deal to do with the fact that it is primarily speakers of Indo-European who address this topic in search of their own roots. [...] Although there is a consensus among archaeologists working on the steppes that the Andronovo culture is in the right place at the right time, and thus is to be considered Indo-Iranian, there is neither textual, ethnohistoric, nor archaeological evidence, individually or in combination, that offers a clinching argument for this consensus."
https://books.google.com/books?id=ND...idian.&f=false
"A migration-free theory that assumes the continuity of all European and Asiatic populations from Paleo-/Mesolithic times is gaining consensus not only among prehistorians (cf., e.g., Marcel Otte's and Alexander Hausler's work) but also, and especially, among linguists (Alinei 1996-2000 n.d.; Ballester n.d; Cavazza 2001; Costa 1998; Poghirc 1992). In this framework not only Andronovo but also the whole cultural sequence that precedes it, from Srednyi Stog to the Pit Grave, Catacomb Grave, and Timber Grave cultures (cf. Makkay's comment), can only be seen as expressions of an already developed Turkic branch of the Altaic population, originating in Central Asia in Paleolithic times. Among other advantages, this conclusion produces (1) a straightforward explanation of the numerous Turkic loanwords for horse terminology in Samoyed and other Uralic languages, as well as in Slavic, and (2) a convergence between a hippocentric geo-cultural scenario, on the one hand, and the continuity of the archaeological record, on the other ("The steppe tribes of horse-breeders and mobile pastoralists had already begun, in the Copper Age, to play the role which they were to continue to play for the next 5,000 to 5,500 years of human history" [Chernykh 1992:42-3]), pace Anthony and other scholars who continue to cultivate the myth of the hippocentrism of the Indo-Europeans and the Indo-Iranians. The origin of the Iranians, in turn, must be sought in Iran itself, and their role in the steppes should be seen as an aspect of a later expansion from the south (see Khlopin 1990:177). The Bactrian Margiana complex, in my opinion correctly interpreted by Lamberg-Karlovsky as opposed to Andronovo, may well be an important aspect of the Iranians' earliest northern expansion."
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/345686
Ancient Central Asia:
Nice fantasy map. Here is original reality version...
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We are all brothers in arms, but dark powers don't want us to reunite. We have to show the world the truth about our kinship.
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Typical pseudo science with fake maps created by turkic nationalist.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...nt_Descendants
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ast_9000_Years
https://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperI...?paperID=21698
https://indo-european.eu/tag/r1a-z93/
https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201450
https://fabpedigree.com/s038/f150963.htm
Ancestor of r1a-z93 originated from Europe, do you really think turks are from Europe???
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Seriously? Isn't it that guy who claimed R1b as Proto-Turkic Kurgan L23 warriors? This world is so crazy, don't you think?
Typical pseudo science with fake maps created by eurocentric nationalist. Whereas all my sources are from neutral European researchers.
This map is based on that study btw:
Kipchak Netanyahu's confirmed?
Ancestor of R-M207 originated from Siberia, do you really think europeans are from Siberia?
You are so awesome, I like you
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Seriously? Isn't it that guy who claimed R1b as Proto-Turkic Kurgan L23 warriors? This world is so crazy, don't you think?
Typical pseudo science with fake maps created by eurocentric nationalist. Whereas all my sources are from neutral European researchers.
This map is based on that study btw:
Kipchak Netanyahu's confirmed?
Ancestor of R-M207 originated from Siberia, do you really think europeans are from Siberia?
You are so awesome, I like you
The map is dumb. According to the map there is very low R1a in southeastern Afghanistan among Pashtuns but actually R1a is around 60-70% among South Pashtuns and around 50% among North Pashtuns. R1a is low among Kyrgyz just one province shows a lot because of founder effects.
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For example this is a typical fake map:
Proto Kipchaks, chuvasians, baskhirs, khazaks lived 5000 years ago??? Are you retard? 5000 years ago there were no turkic subgroups only proto-turkic.
Stop sending love emojis (i mean your early similar reputations too) because this is sexual harassing and i will report you. Leave me aloneYou are so awesome, I like you
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Also, I don't even see other Turks on TA supporting him and his ideas. They mostly don't care about R1a.
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Kyrgyz from China also have 68% R1a, we can't see them on the map, because R1a hotspot is within Kyrgyz borders. If you want to know why it's so disturbing for most pan-IE'ists, visit anthrogenica: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....ll=1#post67485
DMXX is a specialist.
Eupedia is not academic and produces underground hobby maps.
Underhill's paper was published in a renowned scientific paper.
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Btw personally i think turkic peoples have great and nice history that's why i don't understand why are you clam everything? Being turkic is linguistically and culturally thing not genetically. Turkic peoples have full different genetic, anatolians are mostly J, turkmens are mostly Q, khazaks are C, baskhirs are r1b, yakuts are N, but it does not mean that every single haplogroup is turkic.
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