Why do many Saami look white even though they are not

[Zanzibar]

Based on FST distances between populations in the 1240K+HO dataset, the population labeled Saami.DG is also closer to Uzbeks than to Norwegians. The population labeled Saami.DG consists of two Saami samples from a region of Finland that is part of the Northern Saami area.

library(admixtools)
library(pheatmap)
library(vegan) # for reorder.hclust
library(colorspace) # for hex

pop=unlist(strsplit("Besermyan
Chuvash
Estonian
Karakalpak
Karelian
Kazakh
Lithuanian
Mordovian
Nogai_Astrakhan
Nogai_Karachay_Cherkessia
Nogai_Stavropol
Norwegian
Saami.DG
Tatar_Kazan
Tatar_Mishar
Tatar_Siberian
Turkmen
Mansi
Udmurt
Ukrainian
Uyghur
Uzbek
Veps","\n"))

f=fst("path/to/v44.3_HO_public",pop)

df=as.data.frame(f[,-4])
df2=rbind(df,setNames(df[,c(2,1,3)],names(df)))
t=xtabs(df2[,3]~df2[,1]+df2[,2])

pheatmap(
  1000*t,
  filename="a.png",
  clustering_callback=function(...)reorder(hclust(as.dist(t)),t["Norwegian",]),
  legend=F,
  border_color=NA,
  cellwidth=18,
  cellheight=18,
  treeheight_row=80,
  treeheight_col=80,
  display_numbers=T,
  number_format="%.0f",
  number_color="black",
  colorRampPalette(hex(HSV(c(210,210,130,60,40,20,0),c(0,.5,.5,.5,.5,.5,.5),1)))(256)
)

Can you do the FST distance for the Mari as well? Its fascinating how Saamis are closer to Uzbek, some Nogais, Tatar_Siberian than to Norwegians, Lithuanians. Also look at how genetically distant Saamis are from everyone (closest distances are 25 and 26 with Tatar_Kazan and Chuvash), its as if they are a very isolated unique population.

Also interesting how Udmurts are closer to Uzbeks, Turkmens, Nogai_Stavropol, Siberian Tatars than to Ukrainians, Veps, Estonians, Norwegians and Lithuanians.

[Roy]

Can you do the FST distance for the Mari as well? Its fascinating how Saamis are closer to Uzbek, some Nogais, Tatar_Siberian than to Norwegians, Lithuanians. Also look at how genetically distant Saamis are from everyone (closest distances are 25 and 26 with Tatar_Kazan and Chuvash), its as if they are a very isolated unique population.

Also crazy how Udmurts are closer to Uzbeks, Turkmens, Nogai_Stavropol, Siberian Tatars than to Ukrainians, Veps, Estonians, Norwegians and Lithuanians.

Udmurts have a lot of chink DNA. I guess that gets them closer to Uzbeks etc.

And speaking of Saamis the majority of them are white or ambiguous white. I find it fascinating that they are supposedly genetically closer to Turkmens than to Swedes while they look more similar to the latter.

[Lemminkäinen]

Udmurts have a lot of chink DNA. I guess that gets them closer to Uzbeks etc.

And speaking of Saamis the majority of them are white or ambiguous white. I find it fascinating that they are supposedly genetically closer to Turkmens than to Swedes while they look more similar to the latter.

It is a question about genetic distances of admixtures. Let's assume we have two individuals, the first one (a) being Turkish woth 20% SSA and another one (b) Finnish with 20% SSA. They map on a global PCA very close each other somwhere in North Africa, but phenotypically still to some extent resemble Turkish and Finnish.

[Zanzibar]

Udmurts have a lot of chink DNA. I guess that gets them closer to Uzbeks etc.

And speaking of Saamis the majority of them are white or ambiguous white. I find it fascinating that they are supposedly genetically closer to Turkmens than to Swedes while they look more similar to the latter.

Do you consider Udmurts and Maris mixed race? They are around 25 to 33%+ Mongoloid genetically. That similar amount to what a Castizo/Harnizo would score in Amerindian and Quadroon would score in African. And both are considered mixed race.

Saamis have around 25-30% Mongoloid on average though (unless they are mixed with Scandinavians and Russians which makes them more Euro and less Mong as in the case of Saamis from Kola Peninsula). That's because phenotype does not equal phenotype. They might look a lot more like their neighbors due to the majority of their ancestry being Northern European. Its the East Asian ancestry of the Saamis that pulls them closer to Siberian/many Central Asian Turkics than to their fellow Euros.

[Roy]

Do you consider Udmurts and Maris mixed race? They are around 25 to 33%+ Mongoloid genetically. That similar amount to what a Castizo/Harnizo would score in Amerindian and Quadroon would score in African. And both are considered mixed race.

Saamis have around 25-30% Mongoloid on average though (unless they are mixed with Scandinavians and Russians which makes them more Euro and less Mong as in the case of Saamis from Kola Peninsula). That's because phenotype does not equal phenotype. They might look a lot more like their neighbors due to the majority of their ancestry being Northern European. Its the East Asian ancestry of the Saamis that pulls them closer to Siberian/many Central Asian Turkics than to their fellow Euros.

Yeah but this is is still incredible that someone looking like this woman would likely score 25% Siberian etc.

[Zanzibar]

Yeah but this is is still incredible that someone looking like this woman would likely score 25% Siberian etc.

It shows phenotype does not equal genotype. Also many Saamis these days could have mixed with ethnic Swedes and other Germanics. I read from somewhere that pure Saamis are a lot shorter than ethnic Swedes/Norwegians/many Finns, bigger heads, dark hair and eyes also weaker facial hair growth I believe.

[Zanzibar]

Yeah but this is is still incredible that someone looking like this woman would likely score 25% Siberian etc.

You might also find this thread fascinating: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-Bashkortostan

One of the presidents look completely Mongoloid while the other looks White like any other Euro.

[Roy]

It shows phenotype does not equal genotype. Also many Saamis these days could have mixed with ethnic Swedes and other Germanics. I read from somewhere that pure Saamis are a lot shorter than ethnic Swedes/Norwegians/many Finns, bigger heads, dark hair and eyes also weaker facial hair growth I believe.

The majority of them are not mixed though. I think this woman is fully Saami.

[Roy]

You might also find this thread fascinating: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-Bashkortostan

One of the presidents look completely Mongoloid while the other looks White like any other Euro.

I have read that the white one is a Northern Bashkir and they have much less 'Mongoloid' ancestry on average than other Bashkirs so not fully compqrable. Saami people are more homogeneous genetically.

[Celto-Germanic]

It shows phenotype does not equal genotype. Also many Saamis these days could have mixed with ethnic Swedes and other Germanics. I read from somewhere that pure Saamis are a lot shorter than ethnic Swedes/Norwegians/many Finns, bigger heads, dark hair and eyes also weaker facial hair growth I believe.

If that's true, then why can facial phenotypes be calculated and predicted on computers using genetics?

https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com/reconstruction

Uzbeks and central asians in general have a large proportion of genetic admixture in common with Europeans, around 30%, and are very heterogeneous from town to town.