View Poll Results: Dalmatia more Med or Balkan ?

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  • more Southern European

    16 34.78%
  • more Balkan

    30 65.22%
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Thread: Dalmatia, Balkan or Southern Europe ?

  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedza View Post
    Biological ancestry ethnicity is one thing and Practical, Real Identity is another thing.

    My Ancestors were Predojević Serbs, but to call myself a Serb today is laughable.

    Turk is invented identity as much as Bosniaks (Turks were those steppe warriors among Anatolians who helped overthrow Orthodoxes)

    But if Ottomans said: We are Byzantines and we have instituted a New Religion and Turkic influenced culture in Byzantium cause we CAN.

    They were correct, but again from traditional standpoint they did not resemble Classical Hellenistic Empire of old in any way.

    But they had RIGHT to do so, cause they were as well Byzantine populace.
    He is your cousin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telli_Hasan_Pasha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maks Luburic View Post
    I am in favour of cleaning this shit up, finally. It´s necessary to think more radical in this regard.

    With elections, kindly asking, parley and other gooders-methods you won´t change anything there.
    But they're equally native as Serbs & Croats in the Balkans. Anout the only difference is that they're not Christian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    But they're equally native as Serbs & Croats in the Balkans. Anout the only difference is that they're not Christian.
    Jepp. And that is simultaneously the biggest problem there, we won´t have peace there and will never be able to look into the future until not everyone there follows my example and leaves Islam. After the conversions are done we can split up Bosnia in fair parts between Croatia and Serbia and finally start to look into the future instead like now just focussing on the past.

  4. #384
    Achaean,not Patrian Faklon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedza View Post
    Absolutely. Good Question.

    First of All Ottomans never called themselves Turk, Turks were a community among the Ottomans who were living in villages in Anatolia and are Steppe Nomads who came with Oghuz Turks.


    Ottomans descended from Western Anatolian community of Nicea whose Center was based in Nicomedia and are collection of Byzantine Royals namely Komnenos, Erotikos, Angelos and few others who at that time
    supported Komnenos as a true successors to Roman throne and who claimed that the rule of John II was illegitimate. John's II brother Isaac and his son John defected to Danshimend Turks and created an alliance with
    them just like it happened previously with (Leo the Khazar - alliance out of interest) and Isaacs son John married Turkish women daughter of Mesud and he became Tzepeles Celebi (after conversion to Islam)

    Great Grand son of Tzepeles Celebi (John Komnenos) was Osman Ghazi who later founded Ottoman Sultanate and later after Mehmed II (His great grand son) conquered Constantinople Roman Empire was renamed to Osman
    to distinguish a New Religion and Culture.

    Byzantines (Romans) who converted to Islam (which numbers were numerous) wanted to differentiate themselves from Roman Orthodoxes and they called themselves Ottomans as an opposite to previous name Romans (those from Romulus)
    However that name wasn't suitable cause Anatolia housed many Turks, Persians and Syrian converts to Islam as well, and Balkans was a homeplace for Serbs etc... who also converted to Islam

    Ottoman Emperor issued an command that all subject of Ottoman Empire who are of the religion of Constantinople (Islam) are to be addressed as MUSLIMS to avoid naming problems (that name was used by Bosniaks up to 1993)

    So you have

    1. Real Turks (Steppe Warriors) called Muslims
    2. Roman converts called Ottomans and Muslims
    3. Serb converts called Muslims
    4. Anatolian converts called Ottomans and Muslims
    5. Orthodox Greeks called Romans
    6. Orthodox Armenians called Romans
    7. Other Orthodoxes called Romans

    So it was only a religious divide not Ethnic or National or any other, Ottomans, Muslims and Romans of Balkans and Anatolia are one of the same people except those Turks who lived in central anatolia.

    Later after Ottoman Empire collapsed people were searching for Identity in Anatolia and Attaturk decided that Turkish language should be the only language, and Turks (who were few) have absorbed over 80% Non-Turks who now call themselves Turks.

    That's what you get when you have two Cultures and Religions in Roman Empire.



    As for this:

    "Eastern-Roman empire was far more institutional than the Ottoman empire and Christianity was developed by early Romans themselves, later it was introduced to Slavs by Cyril and Methodius. It wasn't imposed on them by an invading empire whose biggest power was conversion."

    Ottoman Empire wasn't Invading Empire, but Religiously SPLIT Anadolian part of Byzantine Empire.

    Ottoman - Byzantine Wars were Fratricidal wars.
    @ABSOLUTELY NOT BOSNIENSIS


    Just because some butthurt noble mingled with Seljuks doesn't make Seljuks Roman nor later Ottomans, it rather makes him an Ottoman. The patriarchate didn't welcome the Ottomans, they just tried to compromise in order to save the Christians and the Ottomans needed them since they had no maritime technology(don't watch neo-Ottoman movies like Fetih 1453). There was an anti-Western sentiment since the empire had recently got fucked by the West(crusades) and the crimes of the West go unnoticed but at least there were a couple of Genoans and even Hungarians protecting Constantinople.

    Rum was correlated with the patriarchate of Constantinople, Armenians weren't called Rum because they belong to another Orthodox church. Roumelia used to describe the Balkans(Greece to Bosnia) changing locations around these areas, in Greece it came to mean the areas of Central-North Greece(aka north of Morea/Peloponnese), in my village people still call themselves Roumeliots. When Slavic people came to identify with their own empires, in Greece the identification Roman was casually used. Ottomans were a multiuniverse of racial and cultural mixes, coming from Turan they integrated gradually Persian, Arabic and eventually East-Roman influence, they recognized their Turanic origin but as they got urbanized they used Turk to refer to rural villagers. In Greece we used Turks, here is a document from 17th century Central Greece, you will read ~100 times about Romans versus Turks https://www.mikrosapoplous.gr/extracts/galakseidi.html.

    As for some cocky Sultan calling himself Caesar of Romans, he didn't inherited the title Augustus/Sebastos from antiquity nor his empire was ruled by antique Roman law.

    Here's a look of traditional sοngs/laments from all around Greece that mention the fallen Roman Empire, half of them don't even mention anything about Christianity, their common point is the fall of the Roman/East-Roman empire and the time that Constantinople will belong to Romans again.

    https://www.sakketosaggelos.gr/Article/426/

    The legend of the red apple tree(κόκκινη μηλιά) and the immortal emperor that turned to stone.

    These are closer to the spirit of the empire than folk-pop from Trabzon.




    The double-headed eagle flies high in the heavenly dome...the Barbarians are approaching to the doors of the Empire



    You'll appear again like lighting king of kings rulling over kings Konstantinos Dragaš Palaiologos emperor of the Romans, the lands will have a feast, the city has fallen, with the time it will be yours again

    (You are always welcome to note the Serbian origin you both partly share.)

    Islam came with an invading force of highly different culture that had to win many battles in order to rule with a pretty unholy but nevertheless successful Devshirme/conversion policy.

    Greek neo-pagans are modernist cucks with no based belief, they want to show off to their world friends when they can't admire a quasi-Platonic empire that lasted more than any other in Europe.

    Last but not least, your avatar wears a mix of Ottoman and modern Western clothes.

    Here's some East-Roman fashion that evolved from Tunica and Toga,









    Last edited by Faklon; 03-14-2019 at 04:15 AM.

  5. #385
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    Leeloo/Feiichy Island



















  6. #386
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    more opinions ?

    Interesting piece of text from here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatia

    Culture and ethnicity


    The inhabitants of Dalmatia are culturally subdivided into two groups. The urban families of the coastal cities, commonly known as Fetivi, are culturally akin to the inhabitants of the Dalmatian islands (known derogatorily as Boduli). The two are together distinct, in the Mediterranean aspects of their culture, from the more numerous inhabitants of the Zaleđe, the hinterland. Referred to (sometimes derogatorily) as the Vlaji, their name originated from the Vlachs with whom they have no ethnical connection. The latter are historically more influenced by Ottoman culture, merging almost seamlessly at the border with the Herzegovinian Croats and southern Bosnia and Herzegovina in general. Population of present-day Dalmatia is descended from Croats who assimilated with already existing Romanized Illyrians, upon their arrival.

    The former two groups (inhabitants of the islands and the cities) historically included many Venetian and Italian speakers, many of whom identified as Italians (esp. after the Italian unification). Their presence, relative to those identifying as Croats, decreased dramatically over the course of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century. The Italian speakers constituted (according to the Italian linguist Bartoli) nearly one third of Dalmatians in the second half of the 18th century. According to the Austrian census it had decreased to 12.5% in 1865 and 3.1% in 1890. There remains, however, a strong cultural, and, in part, ancestral heritage among the natives of the cities and islands, who today almost exclusively identify as Croats, but retain a sense of regional identity.

  7. #387
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    ..

  8. #388
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    Jesus Christ if Dalmatia stayed under Italy we wouldnt have this conversation or thread, but it is part of Croatia and now by default cause of slavic thing we are connected to "Balkans", even though considering architecture, customs, ethnofolklour games and songs etc we are 100% Mediterranean area just like Greece or Italy or Portugal.

    I am sorry if someone doesnt see this fact cause she or he is blinded by "slavic thing".

    Dalmatia is like an Italian outpost of Italian influence trough 1000 years, this doesnt mean Dalmatia should be Italy, it is Croatia totally, buy you get my point.

    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robocop View Post
    ...we are 100% Mediterranean area just like Greece or Italy or Portugal.



    Dalmatia... it is Croatia totally, buy you get my point.

    Cheers.
    If you see a post in red font made by my username, that means that it is Pompey's post, not mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    Yes

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