New Iberian paper with Celtiberian samples out!

[Peterski]

British/Irish populations are still very Steppe shifted though as far as Europeans go which is why they cluster where they do.

Many British Beakers cluster with Scandinavians on GEDmatch, not with modern British, because they had higher Steppe.

However, Late Bronze Age British cluster with modern British, or even get British + Basque in various GEDmatch Oracles.

That's because Neolithic British Farmer admixture increased from ~5% in Beaker Period to ~15% in Late Bronze Age:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...lithic-Britons

There were individuals in the Bronze Age with very high Neolithic British (indicating that mixing with surviving farmers continued, just like mixing between Maoris and whites continues in New Zealand, and also full-blooded Maori population increases due to high birthrates):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...t)-on-GEDmatch

Also modern South-Eastern English have higher Neolithic Farmer, but much of their Neolithic is closely related to Italian Neolithic Farmers. On the other hand, all of Pre-Beaker Britain was inhabited by farmers closely related to Iberian Farmers - not to Italian Farmers.

[Grace O'Malley]

Many British Beakers cluster with Scandinavians on GEDmatch, not with modern British, because they had higher Steppe.

However, Late Bronze Age British cluster with modern British, or even get British + Basque in various GEDmatch Oracles.

That's because Neolithic British Farmer admixture increased from ~5% in Beaker Period to ~15% in Late Bronze Age:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...lithic-Britons

There were individuals in the Bronze Age with very high Neolithic British (indicating that mixing with surviving farmers continued, just like mixing between Maoris and whites continues in New Zealand, and also full-blooded Maori population increases due to high birthrates):

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...t)-on-GEDmatch

Also modern South-Eastern English have higher Neolithic Farmer, but much of their Neolithic is closely related to Italian Neolithic Farmers. On the other hand, all of Pre-Beaker Britain was inhabited by farmers closely related to Iberian Farmers - not to Italian Farmers.

Modern British are still Northern shifted though but I'm looking forward to an in depth study on this from Cassidy when it comes out. Apparently Southwest Ireland retained a higher neolithic than the east and north of Ireland. From looking up info on that as well there was populations that came into Ireland after the Bronze Age so looking forward to hearing the nitty gritty about that. I've posted this Ancestry plot on another thread and it's applicable to this thread as well as I think it's noticeable that Spanish are pulled towards Italy on this. What do others think?



Would that Italian Neolithic Farmer input be related to the Romans in Britain?

[Grace O'Malley]

Some Visigothic too, and Suebi in Galicia and by extension Portugal. Germanic admixture should be not higher than North African admix. Aren's post pretty much nails it:

Just reading the paper again and from the study Visigoths didn't have any lasting impact.

In contrast to the demographic changes in the Classical period, movements into Iberia during the decline of the Roman Empire had less long-term demographic impact.
Nevertheless, individual sites—for example, the 6th century site of Pla del'Horta in the northeast—bear witness to events in this period. These individuals, archaeologically
interpreted as Visigoths, are shifted from those at L'Esquerda in the direction of Northern and Central Europe (Figs. 1D and 2C and table S18), and we observe the Asian mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) haplogroup C4a1a also found in Early Medieval Bavaria (20), supporting a recent link to groups with ancestry originally derived from Central and Eastern Europe.

Although some of the Celtiberians had high North Euro and Steppe. They are possibly from Urnfied culture.

[Token]

Just reading the paper again and from the study Visigoths didn't have any lasting impact.



Although some of the Celtiberians had high North Euro and Steppe. They are possibly from Urnfied culture.

Where did they say that they didn't have any lasting impact? They wrote they had 'less long term demographic impact' compared to Romans, which of course is true.

[Grace O'Malley]

Where did they say that they didn't have any lasting impact? They wrote they had 'less long term demographic impact' compared to Romans, which of course is true.

I'm also reading Eurogenes Blog and Anthrogenica and there were a few comments along that line. I wonder if someone else could clarify the situation.

[Morena]

I'm also reading Eurogenes Blog and Anthrogenica and there were a few comments along that line. I wonder if someone else could clarify the situation.

I'm going to have to go there. They go more in depth.

[Token]

I'm also reading Eurogenes Blog and Anthrogenica and there were a few comments along that line. I wonder if someone else could clarify the situation.

These guys are more interested in discussing the Beakers than anything else.
Btw, i made a post on Anthrogenica with some G25 runs. Germanic admixture is obvious in samples post-dating barbarian invasions, specially in the l'Esquerda samples which qpAdm failed to flesh out.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post554773

[Bellbeaking]

Would that Italian Neolithic Farmer input be related to the Romans in Britain?

Central Europeans like Austrians and Bavarian farmer input is Italian farmer + lbk/gac according to eurogenes, so it could also be halstatt/urnfield etc.

[Creoda]

Central Europeans like Austrians and Bavarian farmer input is Italian farmer, so it could also be halstatt/urnfield etc

Is there any real difference between 'Italian' farmers and 'Iberian' famers, other than the latter having more WHG? I thought British Farmers were closer to Iberians because they had more WHG than both.

Even if there is a discernable difference, wouldn't the British Beakers have had mostly Italian-like Neolithic blood in the first place, from LBK etc?

[Token]

Is there any real difference between 'Italian' farmers and 'Iberian' famers, other than the latter having more WHG? I thought British Farmers were closer to Iberians because they had more WHG than both.

Even if there is a discernable difference, wouldn't the British Beakers have had mostly Italian-like Neolithic blood in the first place, from LBK etc?

Iberian, British and Central European farmer cultures such as GAC and TRB are all entirely descended from Paris Basin Megalithic builders, so there is basically no difference between them.