Ancient Ashkenazi Jewish DNA

**Peterski** · 03-19-2019, 02:32 PM

Probably the oldest known Ashkenazi Jewish grave is the grave of Jacob ha-Bachur from ca. 1076/1077 - this grave can be found at the Jewish cemetery in Worms (Celtic: Borbetomagus; Roman: Civitas Vangionum) in Rhineland-Palatinate:

And here the grave of Yaakov ben Moshe Levi Moelin (born 1365 - died September 14, 1427), the Maharil:

Other old Jewish graves from this cemetery:

IMO at least Jacob ha-Bachur (who died in 1076/1077) should be exhumated, and a sample of aDNA should be extracted from his bones.

**Proto-Shaman** · 03-19-2019, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Peterski

IMO at least Jacob ha-Bachur (who died in 1076/1077) should be exhumated, and a sample of aDNA should be extracted from his bones.

**Peterski** · 03-19-2019, 03:16 PM

Jacob ha-Bachur's grave: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grabst...Jakob_haBachur

Early Medieval Jewish communities in the Rhineland (Jacob ha-Bachur is from Worms):

Originally Posted by Kipchak Håkan

Do you believe in the Khazar origin theory, not in the Italy or Rhineland bottleneck theory?

=====

BTW, there is also Early Medieval Slavic DNA from East Germany:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...A-from-Germany

**Proto-Shaman** · 03-19-2019, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Peterski

BTW, there is also Early Medieval Slavic DNA from East Germany:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...A-from-Germany

Europe is the Urheimat of Slavic-Latin I1 and I2 tribes.

**ModernMaskil** · 03-19-2019, 03:37 PM

I'm conflicted as generally I'd rather remains be left untouched (especially in a place like worms where multiple massacres occurred) but for the sake of science I'd like to see what their DNA looked like around the time, probably slightly after the bottleneck.

**Pine** · 03-19-2019, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Peterski

IMO at least Jacob ha-Bachur (who died in 1076/1077) should be exhumated, and a sample of aDNA should be extracted from his bones.

Rabbinic authorities would never allow it.

**Peterski** · 03-20-2019, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Pine

Rabbinic authorities would never allow it.

So religious superstition is halting the progress of science? Native Americans agreed to get their ancient bones DNA tested.

**TheOldNorth** · 03-20-2019, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Peterski

Jacob ha-Bachur's grave: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grabst...Jakob_haBachur

Early Medieval Jewish communities in the Rhineland (Jacob ha-Bachur is from Worms):

Do you believe in the Khazar origin theory, not in the Italy or Rhineland bottleneck theory?

=====

BTW, there is also Early Medieval Slavic DNA from East Germany:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...A-from-Germany

It's not about belief, it's been proven that ashkenazis are from judean paternal & european (roman) maternal ancestors through not only haplogroups but recent autosomal test

**~~RandomGuy20~~** · 03-20-2019, 05:05 AM

Interesting

That's also the region where my grandmother is from (Kaiserslautern)

**Peterski** · 03-20-2019, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by TheOldNorth

It's not about belief, it's been proven that ashkenazis are from judean paternal & european (roman) maternal ancestors

Yes, mostly Levantine Y-DNA, but nothing has actually been proven regarding their maternal ancestors.

On Anthrogenica several users argued that the same mtDNA haplogroups existed also in ancient Levant.

About Y-DNA: https://jewishdna.net/

Edit:

More about Ashkenazi haplogroups on page 3: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post5892278