Page 34 of 35 FirstFirst ... 24303132333435 LastLast
Results 331 to 340 of 341

Thread: Mexico demands Spain apologize for colonial abuse of indigenous people

  1. #331
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Last Online
    05-30-2020 @ 09:29 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Ethnicity
    Mutt
    Country
    Costa Rica
    Region
    Catalunya
    Politics
    Right Wing Nationalism
    Hero
    Augusto Pinochet
    Religion
    Catholic
    Relationship Status
    InfamousAngel99´s husband
    Age
    19
    Gender
    Posts
    1,947
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 837
    Given: 258

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KMack View Post
    https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/07...tes-in-mexico/
    By John Daniel Davidson
    NOVEMBER 7, 2019

    On any given day outside the Metropolitan Cathedral in Mexico City, you’ll see a curious sight: dozens of men and women adorned in full ceremonial Aztec dress, elaborate combinations of feathers, animal bones, and body paint—everything, it seems, but actual jaguar headdresses festooned with human skulls. They gather a stone’s throw from the ruins of Templo Mayor, once the center of Aztec religious and political life, where at least 4,000 people—and possibly many more—were sacrificed every year, many of them ritualistically cannibalized.

    Here, between the ruins of the old temple and the spires of the cathedral, crowds of tourists and Mexicans line up waiting their turn for a limpia, or spiritual cleansing. A supplicant stands with arms outstretched and eyes closed while a play-acting Aztec, burning incense in one hand and a bundle of herbs in the other, performs a brief ritual, passing the herbs over the person’s head, torso, and limbs as the incense smoke wafts over him. Meanwhile, men and women in Aztec garb work the lines collecting money.

    But this isn’t some kind of gimmicky street sideshow, it’s a ceremony that both the tourists and Mexicans waiting in line appear to take seriously.

    And it’s loud. Inside the cathedral during Mass you can hear the faint, incessant thump of the Aztec drums in the street, even behind the 500-year-old stone walls—walls built with stone taken from Templo Mayor after the conquest of the Aztec empire by Hernán Cortés in 1521.

    This week marks the 500th anniversary of the first meeting of Cortés and the Aztec emperor Montezuma II at the entrance to Tenochtitlan (present-day Mexico City). Less than two years after that historic meeting, Montezuma II would be dead, Tenochtitlan would lie in ruins, and Cortés would accept the surrender of the defeated Aztecs, whose empire was gone forever.

    After Cortés, the way lay open to European conquest of the American continent. For that, the conquistador is loathed by Mexican nationalists, who view him as the first Spaniard to lord over the indigenous population. Outside Mexico, he’s reviled by the modern left as an imperial despoiler of indigenous peoples, a greedy butcherer who destroyed an entire culture in search of gold and glory. In this view, Cortés is the near-perfect embodiment of European barbarity visited upon the unsuspecting peoples of the New World.

    It’s a reputation that’s entirely undeserved and largely ahistorical. Granting that Cortés was no saint, even that he was a cruel and violent man, it’s hard to overstate the difficulty and importance of what he achieved.

    Cortés and his men overcame what seemed to be impossible odds to conquer Tenochtitlan, which by 1519 was comparable in size to Paris, Venice, and Constantinople, and was the center of one of the greatest military empires the western hemisphere had ever seen. By defeating Montezuma II and forcing the Aztecs to surrender, Cortés ended a religious and political system whose basic imperative was ritual human sacrifice on a grand, almost industrial scale. Whatever evils Cortés brought to the New World, they pale in comparison to the evil he stamped out.

    But you won’t read any paeans to Cortés in the Mexican press, see any museum exhibitions chronicling his exploits, or hear of any public lectures, commemorations, or celebrations to mark the quincentenary of his arrival in Mexico. Indeed, Cortés is strangely absent amid the impending anniversary.

    At the National Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City, which houses an enormous collection of pre-Columbian artifacts, the Aztec collection forms the centerpiece of the museum—a cavernous hall of stone sculptures, vessels, masks, friezes, and altars of every shape and size. Perusing the collection, one is struck by how much of it was part of Tenochtitlan’s vast machinery of human sacrifice.

    There is little in the exhibit to indicate why it all ended, or how, except a small display next to one of the exits that mentions Cortés and the arrival of the Spanish. Across town at the National Museum of History, which chronicles Mexico’s history from the Spanish conquest to the twentieth century, Cortés is barely mentioned.

    Hence Cortés, arguably the hinge on which all of Mexico’s history turns, is strangely absent from the story that modern-day Mexico tells about itself. To the extent there’s been any official recognition of Cortés connected to the 500th anniversary of the conquest, it’s been to demand his cancellation. Earlier this year, Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador sent a letter to King Felipe VI of Spain and Pope Francis requesting an apology for the Spanish conquest, calling it an “invasion” in which “one culture, one civilization was imposed upon another.”

    The letter received a frigid reception in Spain, whose foreign minister flatly rejected an apology. In Mexico, some balked at the idea of an apology, with one critic noting that Cortés defeated the Aztecs with a force that included thousands of allied Tlaxcalan warriors and other indigenous groups rebelling against Tenochtitlan, thus complicating the question of “us” and “them.”

    Still, the episode highlights a centuries-old tension in Mexico between Spanish-born peninsulares and native-born Mexicans. One of the major causes of the Mexican War of Independence was Spain’s insistence on legal distinctions between the two groups, which turned Spaniards into a hated class in Mexico. Cortés, for obvious reasons, came to be seen as the archetype of Spanish chauvinism.

    Cortés Is Long Overdue For A Reconsideration
    Today, the notion that the Spanish conquest was a massive crime coincides with a renewed interest in Aztec culture as somehow more “authentic” than what displaced it. In this, Mexico’s attitude toward Cortés largely mirrors the attitude of the progressive left toward American history writ large, in which the arrival of slaves in 1619 has, at least in the New York Times’ telling, replaced 1776 as the United States’ true founding.

    But reframing the American Founding around slavery is as ahistorical and reductive as dismissing Cortés as a mere bloodthirsty pirate. As the epitome of the imperial conquistador, Cortés has been reviled far longer than America’s Founding Fathers, whose wickedness is just now coming into vogue.

    Cortés is therefore long overdue for a reconsideration—not just of his exploits but also his motives. It’s common enough nowadays to dismiss the Catholic faith of the Spanish conquistadors under the assumption that their religious beliefs could not have been sincere given their actions. But not all their actions were nakedly self-serving. Writing about the legacy of Cortés earlier this year in Canada’s National Post, Peter Shawn Taylor argued that the entirety of Cortés’ behavior in Mexico cannot be explained by a simple desire for gold and glory:

    When Cortés’ party entered Tenochtitlan for the first time, they reported seeing racks displaying tens of thousands of skulls from sacrificial victims, claims recently backed up by archeological evidence. A single festival during the reign of Moctezuma’s predecessor consumed an estimated 80,000 lives. The ritualized killing and cannibalism of its subject peoples appears to have been the central pre-occupation of Aztec leadership. And Cortés went to great lengths to stamp out these horrors — even when doing so ran counter to the demands of glory and gold. He outraged crucial native allies, for example, by destroying their altars and interrupting sacrificial ceremonies when a lesser and greedier man might have looked the other way.

    (It isn’t hard to imagine today what a greedier man might have done, given the legions of western businessmen willing to look the other way to make a fortune in communist China.)



    Indeed, it’s difficult to overstate the brutality of the Aztec regime that Cortés encountered. The empire Moctezuma II ruled was based on military subjugation and tribute exacted from client states scattered across most of present-day central Mexico. Payments came in the form of gold and living sacrificial victims.

    Indeed, Moctezuma II’s authority was tied to an official state religion that required constant human sacrifice to a terrifying and cruel pantheon. So great was the need for sacrificial victims in Tenochtitlan that Aztec military tactics were devised to allow the live capture of enemies—an oddity Cortés exploited to considerable advantage on the battlefield.

    Put bluntly, the violence of Aztec civilization was based on a cosmology that demanded ritualized violence on a mass scale. The two shrines atop the main pyramid in Tenochtitlan were dedicated to Tlaloc, the god of water and rain, and Huitzilopochtli, the god of war and the sun. Idols of each deity were housed inside the shrines, shrouded from outside view by curtains. Before sacrifices could be offered to Tlaloc, the ground had to be wetted with human tears, usually the tears of children, whose fingernails would be pulled off by Aztec priests to make them cry before they were slaughtered.

    The idol of Huitzilopochtli, the god of both the war and the sun, which the Aztecs considered the source of life and were perpetually afraid would go out, was gruesome. It was made from amaranth seeds and held together with honey and human blood, and inside were bags of jade, human bones, and amulets, which were thought to give life to the god.

    The idol was built every year and decorated with rich garments and a golden mask during the festival of Panquetzaliztli, which was held on the winter solstice in honor of the birth of Huitzilopochtli. At the end of the festival, the idol was broken apart and eaten, and sacrificial victims, covered in blue body paint and arrayed in the costume of the god, had their hearts cut out.

    Horrifying as all this was, there was a certain macabre logic to it. Not unlike the modern cults of abortion and assisted suicide, Aztecs practiced human sacrifice in the belief it was an absolute necessity that would bring about practical goods. After all, the gods Nanahuatzin and Tecucistecatl set themselves on fire to become the sun and the moon, and the Aztecs, by spilling their own blood and that of their children and enemies, were only repaying the gods what was owed to them, thereby ensuring the continuance and prosperity of their people.

    Cortés looked upon all this and concluded, with an iron resolve, that it must be destroyed. After an 80-day siege of Tenochtitlan in the summer of 1521, he ordered the city razed. His men pulled down buildings and walls, and reduced the place to rubble.

    Cortés no doubt left a trail of death and destruction in Mexico, but if we concede that what he destroyed was profoundly evil, even demonic, then perhaps we should at least temper our judgement of him and consider that his moral imagination, informed by his Catholic faith, helped him see Tenochtitlan exactly for what it was
    .
    Great failure. Cortes only needed to show the gospel and the Jesus´ speech of love to aztecs, not to destroy them. Huns, Franks, Vandals, Saxons,Ostrogoths and Visigoths; all of them were pagans too and they weren´t destroyed.

  2. #332
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Online
    01-06-2021 @ 03:29 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Semitic
    Ethnicity
    Levantine
    Country
    Palestine
    Y-DNA
    J2
    mtDNA
    U3
    Taxonomy
    Taurid
    Relationship Status
    In a relationship
    Gender
    Posts
    29,337
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 29,829
    Given: 24,541

    3 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CostaRicaBall View Post
    Great failure. Cortes only needed to show the gospel and the Jesus´ speech of love to aztecs, not to destroy them. Huns, Franks, Vandals, Saxons, and Visigoths; all of them were pagans too and they weren´t destroyed.
    The Aztecs would have never been Christians had Cortes not destroyed the city since the city is the center of blood rituals and human sacrifice that horrified Cortes and his men. Not to mention that most of the Amerindian tribes under the Aztec rule helped Cortes to destroy the empire since they hated the Aztecs. The Aztecs were not killed or genocided out of the face of the earth but rather intermarried with the Spanish male colonizers while many of them got either Hispanized or simply living under the shadow of the Spanish empire.

  3. #333
    Veteran Member renaissance12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:08 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Italian-Romance
    Ethnicity
    Italian
    Country
    Italy
    Hero
    I don't need any hero..but Jesus
    Religion
    Christian-Catholic
    Gender
    Posts
    7,391
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,668
    Given: 1,754

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CostaRicaBall View Post
    Great failure. Cortes only needed to show the gospel and the Jesus´ speech of love to aztecs, not to destroy them. Huns, Franks, Vandals, Saxons,Ostrogoths and Visigoths; all of them were pagans too and they weren´t destroyed.

    Bullshit... Almost every barbarian who entered the Roman empire was a Christian .. indeed .. it was more dangerous to be a Christian ( arianism ) within the Roman empire than outside of it ..




    Religious worship in the Roman world was, by and large, pretty tolerant. Principally, Rome “borrowed” their pantheon of gods from EVERYBODY.. There were even Egyptian gods that were worshiped, mainly the goddess, Isis. Later on, the cult of Mithras appeared, mainly in the Roman Army and still later, Christianity became the state religion when Constantine the Great became Emperor of Rome, Early Christians were persecuted, probably because they wouldn’t accept the Emperor’s divinity.
    The Romans accepted your religion and you agreed to recognize the emperor's divinity ....for the Romans it was strange that Christians refused this "exchange"... ( after all, the Romans were the rulers )
    Last edited by renaissance12; 11-11-2019 at 06:15 AM.

  4. #334
    Trance-Addict Psy-Sprite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Last Online
    02-06-2020 @ 10:44 PM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Ethnicity
    Indo-Mestiza
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Washington
    Hero
    Bill Hicks
    Religion
    BreadPilled
    Gender
    Posts
    110
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 147
    Given: 76

    6 Not allowed!

    Default

    That is just absurd. This is how humanity works, conquest and war has and will always be a part of humanity. Mexico wouldn't be the Mexico it is now without the Spanish conquest. Modern day Spain has absolutely nothing to do with this anymore. They shouldn't apologize.

    I've had the pleasure of visiting Spain a few times in my life and I absolutely cherish Spain's rich culture. The Spanish aren't asking forgiveness from the Berber or Moors? They aren't asking for forgiveness from something that happened EONS ago. They shouldn't.

    I've also had the pleasure of visiting my motherland Mexico. The country was a wonderful kaleidoscope of indigenous and colonial attributes. Mexico's history is what makes Mexico the culturally rich country it is. I am not a 100% indigenous Mexican, so I do not know what struggles the indigenous in Mexico face. I will say this, whomever is "oppressing" the indigenous peoples of Mexico is not a group of Spaniards. It's the Mexican population itself. Call me a malinche if you'd like, but I do not stand for this victim mentality BS. Mexicans have way bigger issues to worry about. In my opinion what Obrador is proposing is preposterous.

    This is just part and parcel of humanity.

    In fact, I as a Mexican-American and don't hold a grudge. It's stupid. Obrador should focus on solving issues that hold more merit. This is all politically correct nonsense. It is exactly what I'd except from a president such as him. Mexico is turning into US 2.0 with the perpetual "woe is me, my ancestors" and identity politics.
    Fueled by Trance Music and Ribeyes ♡

  5. #335
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Online
    09-04-2023 @ 02:54 PM
    Location
    The Deep Spain
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Spanish paleto culture
    Ethnicity
    Spanish paleto culture
    Ancestry
    Castellanos
    Country
    Spain
    Region
    Castile and Leon
    Y-DNA
    Castellanos
    mtDNA
    Castellanos
    Taxonomy
    Spanish paleto culture
    Politics
    Preserving Spanish paleto culture
    Religion
    The only one true Christianism is the Spanish Inquisition
    Gender
    Posts
    49,212
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 25,690
    Given: 23,946

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-Sprite View Post

    I've had the pleasure of visiting Spain a few times in my life and I absolutely cherish Spain's rich culture. The Spanish aren't asking forgiveness from the Berber or Moors? They aren't asking for forgiveness from something that happened EONS ago. They shouldn't.
    In fact it is the opposite, it is North Africans who demand apologizes from Spain for expelling them and ask for Spanish citizenship
    https://www.abc.es/espana/20140217/a...402171119.html
    https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2015/0...6518b4596.html

  6. #336
    Trance-Addict Psy-Sprite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Last Online
    02-06-2020 @ 10:44 PM
    Location
    Cascadia
    Ethnicity
    Indo-Mestiza
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Washington
    Hero
    Bill Hicks
    Religion
    BreadPilled
    Gender
    Posts
    110
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 147
    Given: 76

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Of course ��
    Fueled by Trance Music and Ribeyes ♡

  7. #337
    Veteran Member renaissance12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:08 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Italian-Romance
    Ethnicity
    Italian
    Country
    Italy
    Hero
    I don't need any hero..but Jesus
    Religion
    Christian-Catholic
    Gender
    Posts
    7,391
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,668
    Given: 1,754

    0 Not allowed!

    Default



    Big doesn't mean sophisticated engineering...Pyramids are the structures that require the least technology to build: they are just piles of rocks. They don't have vertical walls, making it easier to bring material to the top, they don't have space inside and therefore it's entire volume consists of supporting "walls".




    Pantheon is a sophisticated engineering building

  8. #338
    Veteran Member alnortedelsur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:07 AM
    Location
    In the basement of my mom
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Mostly Euro Latin American
    Ethnicity
    Venezuelan Spanish
    Ancestry
    Mostly Spanish, some Italian, some Amerindian (6-7%), some minor SSA (4-5%)
    Country
    Spain
    Y-DNA
    J-M267
    mtDNA
    H
    Taxonomy
    Either Alpinized North Atlantid or Brunn
    Politics
    Right Nationalist
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Gender
    Posts
    24,701
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 19,495
    Given: 36,931

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo View Post
    In fact it is the opposite, it is North Africans who demand apologizes from Spain for expelling them and ask for Spanish citizenship
    https://www.abc.es/espana/20140217/a...402171119.html
    https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2015/0...6518b4596.html
    Me voy a cagar en la putia hostia si al traidor anti Espanol que ahora dirige el gobierno de Espana, se le ocurre hacerles algun caso. No me sorprenderia, viniendo de semejante ser.
    My Updated 23andme Results (2021)
    My Updated AncestryDNA Results (2022)
    My Global25 Coordinates (2020)
    An Epic Thread about me opened by Profield
    Quote Originally Posted by Profileid View Post
    Just in case anyone was wondering
    Quote Originally Posted by aherne
    You don't pass in Europe. Amerindian admixture is evident (castizo or harnizo)...

  9. #339
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Online
    09-04-2023 @ 02:54 PM
    Location
    The Deep Spain
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Spanish paleto culture
    Ethnicity
    Spanish paleto culture
    Ancestry
    Castellanos
    Country
    Spain
    Region
    Castile and Leon
    Y-DNA
    Castellanos
    mtDNA
    Castellanos
    Taxonomy
    Spanish paleto culture
    Politics
    Preserving Spanish paleto culture
    Religion
    The only one true Christianism is the Spanish Inquisition
    Gender
    Posts
    49,212
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 25,690
    Given: 23,946

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by renaissance12 View Post
    Big doesn't mean sophisticated engineering...Pyramids are the structures that require the least technology to build: they are just piles of rocks.
    Not true, pyramids hide lot of chambers, tombs, passageways etc that even today are being discovered.
    Last edited by Cristiano viejo; 01-15-2020 at 03:10 PM.

  10. #340
    Veteran Member Latinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Last Online
    03-21-2023 @ 02:22 PM
    Location
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Latin
    Ethnicity
    Brazilian
    Ancestry
    Latin.
    Country
    Brazil
    Region
    Minas Gerais
    Taxonomy
    Alpinized Gracile-Med
    Politics
    I don't give a fuck about it.
    Hero
    Nobody
    Religion
    Atheist
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Posts
    16,091
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 9,836
    Given: 5,025

    2 Not allowed!

    Default

    What happened in the past should stay in the past.
    Bad things aside, Mexico wouldn't exist without Spain.

Page 34 of 35 FirstFirst ... 24303132333435 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-19-2021, 01:16 AM
  2. Does he fit better in Spain, or Mexico?
    By Iloko in forum Taxonomy
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-19-2020, 01:59 AM
  3. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 01-17-2020, 04:42 AM
  4. Replies: 98
    Last Post: 02-11-2019, 01:02 AM
  5. Replies: 58
    Last Post: 01-31-2019, 03:33 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •