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Thread: US Defense Sec: NATO faces a "dim, if not dismal" future

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    Default US Defense Sec: NATO faces a "dim, if not dismal" future

    About time we stopped wasting money on this dinosaur. Once people whose minds are stuck 30 years ago in the Cold War finally get out of authority, we can finally adopt a policy more in line with the 21st century:

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...ture-alliance/

    Brussels – America's military alliance with Europe -- the cornerstone of U.S. security policy for six decades -- faces a "dim, if not dismal" future, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Friday in a blunt valedictory address.

    In his final policy speech as Pentagon chief, Gates questioned the viability of NATO, saying its members' penny-pinching and lack of political will could hasten the end of U.S. support. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was formed in 1949 as a U.S.-led bulwark against Soviet aggression, but in the post-Cold War era it has struggled to find a purpose.

    "Future U.S. political leaders - those for whom the Cold War was not the formative experience that it was for me - may not consider the return on America's investment in NATO worth the cost," he told a European think tank on the final day of an 11-day overseas journey.

    Gates has made no secret of his frustration with NATO bureaucracy and the huge restrictions many European governments placed on their military participation in the Afghanistan war. He ruffled NATO feathers early in his tenure with a direct challenge to contribute more front-line troops that yielded few contributions.

    Even so, Gates' assessment Friday that NATO is falling down on its obligations and foisting too much of the hard work on the U.S. was unusually harsh and unvarnished. He said both of NATO's main military operations now -- Afghanistan and Libya -- point up weaknesses and failures within the alliance.

    "The blunt reality is that there will be dwindling appetite and patience in the U.S. Congress -- and in the American body politic writ large -- to expend increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources or make the necessary changes to be serious and capable partners in their own defense," he said.

    Without naming names, he blasted allies who are "willing and eager for American taxpayers to assume the growing security burden left by reductions in European defense budgets."

    The U.S. has tens of thousands of troops based in Europe, not to stand guard against invasion but to train with European forces and promote what for decades has been lacking: the ability of the Europeans to go to war alongside the U.S. in a coherent way.

    The war in Afghanistan, which is being conducted under NATO auspices, is a prime example of U.S. frustration at European inability to provide the required resources.

    "Despite more than 2 million troops in uniform, not counting the U.S. military, NATO has struggled, at times desperately, to sustain a deployment of 25,000 to 45,000 troops, not just in boots on the ground, but in crucial support assets such as helicopters, transport aircraft, maintenance, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, and much more," Gates said.

    Gates, a career CIA officer who rose to become the spy agency's director from 1991 to 1993, is retiring on June 30 after 4 1/2 years as Pentagon chief. His designated successor, Leon Panetta, is expected to take over July 1.

    For many Americans, NATO is a vague concept tied to a bygone era, a time when the world feared a Soviet land invasion of Europe that could have escalated to nuclear war. But with the demise of the Soviet Union in 1991, NATO's reason for being came into question. It has remained intact -- and even expanded from 16 members at the conclusion of the Cold War to 28 today.

    But reluctance of some European nations to expand defense budgets and take on direct combat has created what amounts to a two-tier alliance: the U.S. military at one level and the rest of NATO on a lower, almost irrelevant plane. Gates said this could spell the demise of NATO.

    "What I've sketched out is the real possibility for a dim, if not dismal future for the trans-Atlantic alliance," he said. "Such a future is possible, but not inevitable. The good news is that the members of NATO - individually and collectively - have it well within their means to halt and reverse these trends and instead produce a very different future."

    Gates has said he believes NATO will endure despite its flaws and failings. But his remarks Friday point to a degree of American impatience with traditional and newer European allies that in coming years could lead to a reordering of U.S. defense priorities in favor of Asia and the Pacific, where the rise of China is becoming a predominant concern.

    To illustrate his concerns about Europe's lack of appetite for defense, Gates noted the difficulty NATO has encountered in carrying out an air campaign in Libya.

    "The mightiest military alliance in history is only 11 weeks into an operation against a poorly armed regime in a sparsely populated country, yet many allies are beginning to run short of munitions, requiring the U.S., once more, to make up the difference
    ," he said.

    His comment reflected U.S. frustration with the allies' limited defense budgets.

    "To avoid the very real possibility of collective military irrelevance, member nations must examine new approaches to boosting combat capabilities," he said.

    He applauded Norway and Denmark for providing a disproportionate share of the combat power in the Libya operation, given the size of their militaries. And he credited Belgium and Canada for making "major contributions" to the effort to degrade the military strength of Libya's Moammar Gadhafi.

    "These countries have, with their constrained resources, found ways to do the training, buy the equipment and field the platforms necessary to make a credible military contribution," he said.

    But they are exceptions, in Gates' view.

    A NATO air operations center designed to handle more than 300 flights a day is struggling to launch about 150 a day against Libya, Gates said.

    On a political level, the problem of alliance purpose in Libya is even more troubling, he said.

    "While every alliance member voted for the Libya mission, less than half have participated, and fewer than a third have been willing to participate in the strike mission," he said. "Frankly, many of those allies sitting on the sidelines do so not because they do not want to participate, but simply because they can't. The military capabilities simply aren't there."

    Afghanistan is another example of NATO falling short despite a determined effort, Gates said.

    He recalled the history of NATO's involvement in the Afghan war -- and the mistaken impression some allied governments held of what it would require of them.

    "I suspect many allies assumed that the mission would be primarily peacekeeping, reconstruction and development assistance - more akin to the Balkans," he said, referring to NATO peacekeeping efforts there since the late 1990s. "Instead, NATO found itself in a tough fight against a determined and resurgent Taliban returning in force from its sanctuaries in Pakistan."

    He also offered praise and sympathy, noting that more than 850 troops from non-U.S. NATO members have died in Afghanistan. For many allied nations these were their first military casualties since World War II.

    He seemed to rehearse his position in the coming debate within the Obama administration on how many troops to withdraw from Afghanistan this year.

    "Far too much has been accomplished, at far too great a cost, to let the momentum slip away just as the enemy is on his back foot," he said.

    He said the "vast majority" of the 30,000 extra troops Obama sent to Afghanistan last year will remain through the summer fighting season. He was not more specific.

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    Seems about right, Europe has been pretty selfish with the US military and taxpayer. while the euro citizen might hate the US military the euro politician wants them, its saves them money.

    Americans get a lot of shit worldwide even though almost every western country is in some way benefiting from the US soldier and US tax payer.

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    NATO is one of the core institutions of Western Civilization, and its demise will accompany the West's demise which will result from the end of 500 years of Western dominance. Removing pillars of cooperation between Europe and America will only create disunity and distance between us which will assist China.

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    The main purpose of NATO appears to be the elimination of inconvenient governments one by one, at a regular pace, under dubious pretexts. These interventions allow for the expansion of the transatlantic economy and they result in regimes more transparent to Western intelligence. More importantly, they are occasions to test machinery and logistics. For all practical purposes, they are like whole nations going to the gym: to exercise and build military muscle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loddfafner View Post
    The main purpose of NATO appears to be the elimination of inconvenient governments one by one, at a regular pace, under dubious pretexts. These interventions allow for the expansion of the transatlantic economy and they result in regimes more transparent to Western intelligence. More importantly, they are occasions to test machinery and logistics. For all practical purposes, they are like whole nations going to the gym: to exercise and build military muscle.
    The real point of NATO is to stand as a bulwark of collective defense for the bulk of Western Civilization. Its very existence on this front deters would be challengers and brings a measure of peace unlikely to exist otherwise. One can be critical of individual NATO actions while not favoring extreme solutions like destroying it. Its basic purpose is very valuable, even if it may arguably make mistakes occasionally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe McCarthy View Post
    The real point of NATO is to stand as a bulwark of collective defense for the bulk of Western Civilization.
    Against what? Soviet Union ceased to exist 2 decades ago. All the threats to western civilization come from within, immigration & political correctness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordoftheVistula View Post
    Against what? Soviet Union ceased to exist 2 decades ago. All the threats to western civilization come from within, immigration & political correctness.
    Russia is still a potential threat, though increasingly the threat comes from the Far East. The very idea though of establishing it as principle that an attack on any of us is an attack on all of us tends to deter aggression against us. With a rising non-Western world why would we choose NOW of all times to destroy the Atlantic alliance, and why would we want to do things that tend to dissolve ties between America and Europe anyway?

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    It's true what Gates said on the Allies' lack of contribution in Afghanistan. Most European countries have less than 1,000 troops compared to America's 90,000 troops (which makes up 68% of total troop contribution in Afghanistan). It's no wonder Afghanistan conflict is still going on because of a lack of participation by European powers (which, funnily enough is an oxymoron). With the lack of contribution and participation by the Allied powers the consequence is the insurgency not wavering. If European countries were serious about Afghanistan, with it being the hotbed of terrorists then they'd contribute a lot more and sweep up Afghanistan in no more than 2-3 years. NATO is experiencing the exact same problem Russia had when it went in Afghanistan. They had only 115,000 troops which was even less than what we have there today but the difference wasn't at all great. All in all, a lack of trying will not accomplish anything.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Forget Me Not View Post
    It's true what Gates said on the Allies' lack of contribution in Afghanistan. Most European countries have less than 1,000 troops compared to America's 90,000 troops (which makes up 68% of total troop contribution in Afghanistan). It's no wonder Afghanistan conflict is still going on because of a lack of participation by European powers (which, funnily enough is an oxymoron). With the lack of contribution and participation by the Allied powers the consequence is the insurgency not wavering. If European countries were serious about Afghanistan, with it being the hotbed of terrorists then they'd contribute a lot more and sweep up Afghanistan in no more than 2-3 years. NATO is experiencing the exact same problem Russia had when it went in Afghanistan. They had only 115,000 troops which was even less than what we have there today but the difference wasn't at all great. All in all, a lack of trying will not accomplish anything.
    True, though we won't lose in Afghanistan as long as we stay there. The Taliban is little more than a pest. To root them out though and wage proper COIN warfare, we need a disparity of at least 10-1 and we don't have that due largely to the fact that the European public is not keen on sending more troops. Of course, we could put the Afghan population in internment camps, which would be preferable to cross-border skirmishes with Pakistan, but we have far too many human rights groups for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loddfafner View Post
    The main purpose of NATO appears to be the elimination of inconvenient governments one by one, at a regular pace, under dubious pretexts. These interventions allow for the expansion of the transatlantic economy and they result in regimes more transparent to Western intelligence. More importantly, they are occasions to test machinery and logistics. For all practical purposes, they are like whole nations going to the gym: to exercise and build military muscle.
    Agreed, and I think these are all good things. But, do we really need NATO for this? The European nations certainly need our support if they want their militaries to go to the gym, but the converse doesn't seem to be true. The only real reason I can think is that engaging in this kind of behavior under a NATO banner adds an outward appearance of legitimacy that it mightn't have if we went it alone.

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