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Thread: Which Turkic ethnicity is genetically closest to Proto Turks?

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sora View Post


    So Bashkirs?

  2. #132
    Legacy of Central Asian Steppes Altaylı's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    So Bashkirs?
    Yes Siberian Tatars and Bashkirs are the closest proxy to proto Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Turul Karom View Post
    They look fresh from their horsebacks and ready to have some tea.
    A very proud family. Can pass in most areas of Eurasia as native.

  3. #133
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    Protomagyars lived in the places where Siberian Tatars and Bashkirs live. Want to refute?


  4. #134
    Legacy of Central Asian Steppes Altaylı's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nykyus View Post
    Protomagyars lived in the places where Siberian Tatars and Bashkirs live. Want to refute?

    That doesn't mean anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turul Karom View Post
    They look fresh from their horsebacks and ready to have some tea.
    A very proud family. Can pass in most areas of Eurasia as native.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altaylı View Post
    That doesn't mean anything.
    Your attempts to refute the official story are highly questionable. Because this story was based on the works of archaeology and written sources.

    Burdjans and Bajgards in Asia

    Stay in the 1st millennium AD e. ancestors of the southeastern Bashkir tribes in Central Asia, or rather in the Syr Darya regions and in the Aral Sea region, is of fundamental importance for understanding the ethnogenesis of the Bashkirs. Therefore, it is important to compare ethnographic material with other sources [1].

    The ancestors of the Usergan, Tangaur, as well as some other Bashkir tribes in the early Middle Ages and Arab-Persian sources were known under the general name Badjgard, Badjgurd, Basjirt or Bashhart. Burzyans under their own name (Arabic - Burdjans, Borjana) from the end of the 1st millennium AD. e. until the XIV century. are constantly mentioned in the territory from the Caspian to Byzantium. Information about the Badjgards and Burdjans is available from Al-Biruni, Al-Masudi, Gardizi, Al-Idrisi and in the works of other oriental writers.

    According to Al-Biruni, "the area occupied by the seventh climate" and inhabited "by various categories of Turks ... passes through the Bashhart mountains, through the Pechenegs, the cities of Suvar and Bulgar ..." [2]. Al-Biruni's message, which is based on an earlier tradition (Ibn-Khordadbeh, IX century), is repeated in many Arab-Persian sources. Almost unchanged, it was borrowed by the 13th-century cosmograph-compiler. Al-Qazvini, from whose work this message passed into the works of Eastern authors of the XIV-XV centuries. So, in the first half of the 15th century. Abd ar-Rashid al-Bakuvi wrote that the seventh climate "passes through the Bashkird mountains, to the limits of al-Badjanak, the cities of Suvar and Bulgar and ends at the sea of ​​al-Muhit" [3]. In historical research, the "Bashhart Mountains" have long been identified with the Ural Mountains, but this thesis is based solely on the fact of the modern settlement of the Bashkirs in the South Urals. The author, from whom Al-Biruni borrowed the quoted message, obviously had in mind a different situation, reflecting the historical and ethnographic map of the 8th-9th centuries. or earlier. The thesis about the settlement of the Pechenegs in the second half of the 9th century, firmly established in science, can hardly be shaken. in the emba-Yaik-Volga interfluve [4]. In recent years, he has found convincing confirmation in archaeological research, which notes that the Pechenezh-Toric antiquities in the Volga region did not spread north of the latitude of the Zhiguli mountains [5]. Consequently, the "limits of the Pechenegs" could not be between the Ural ridge and the cities of Suvar and Bulgar. According to the Arab geographical tradition, the seventh climate "begins in the east, where forests and mountains are inhabited by some [groups of people] from the Turks, similar to savages" [6]. The "Bashhart Mountains", which Al-Biruni and his compilers mention up to the Pechenezh limits, could be located somewhere in the east, most likely in the eastern neighborhood of the Pechenegs who roamed at the turn of the 8th-9th centuries. but in the middle course of the Syr Darya and in the steppes adjacent to it from the north and south. As we will see below, the argumentation of this conclusion can be extended with the involvement of other materials.

    The sources also contain direct indications indicating the presence of the ancient Bashkirs in the Syrdarya and in the Aral Sea region. Al-Masudi (X century), speaking about the reasons for the movement of the Turkic nomads from east to west, mentions the battle of the “four Turkic tribes” “near the sea of ​​Gurganch” (Aral Sea - R.K.) with the Guzes, Karlukamps and Kipchaks. Masudi cites the names of these "Turkic tribes": Badjanak, Badjan, Badjgard and Nauverde [7]. Al-Masudp repeats the same information in Kitab at-tanbih wa-l-ishraf with reference to another work that has not come down to us and with some new details: “... but we mentioned in the book Kitab funun al-ma 'arif va majera fi-d-duhur as-sa-valif "the reasons for the resettlement of these four Turkic tribes from the east and what happened between them, the Guzes, Karluks and Kimaks from the wars and raids on Lake Djurdjani" (MITT, 1939, p. . 166). Doubts about the reliability of the message of Al-Masudi, expressed in their time by I. Marquart and A. Yu. Yakubovsky, disappeared after the possibility of contact in the 8th-9th centuries was proved. on the Syr Darya and in the Aral Sea region, the Oguzes, Karluks and Kimak-Kipchak tribes with the Pechenegs [8]. It is known that the tribes mentioned by Al-Masudi (at least three of them: Badjanak, Badjan and Badjgard) after the defeat at the "Djurzhani Lake" (Aral Sea - R.K.) moved to the North Caucasus, in the environment of the Khazars and Alans [ nine]. It is very important for our topic to establish the time of these events. Based on the general chronology of the Pechenezh history in the 9th century, researchers attribute them to the era between the middle and the end of the 9th century [10]. An earlier and probably reliable date is named by N. Kurat. Referring to an unknown message from Al-Balazuri (IX century), he writes that the Pechenegs and their allied tribes were defeated and left the Aral steppes during the time of Caliph Abdullah ibn-Gakhir, i.e. in 830-844.
    After moving from the Aral Sea region to the west, the Bashkirs are mentioned in the work of Gardizi (XI century). According to him, “Bashgird was one of the highest ranks of the Khazars. He settled between the Khazars and Kimaks with 2000 horsemen. The Khazar Khakan sent a person to Bashgird with a proposal to oust the Saklab ... ”[12].

  6. #136
    Veteran Member Sora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy
    So Bashkirs?
    Yes, seems so. Also Uyghurs & Uzbeks seem very close to ancient Turkics too. For example;

    Uzbek(around 43% Mongoloid & less Iranic admixed than average Uzbeks)

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 25.55
    2 Gedrosia 19.84
    3 Siberian 17.08
    4 North_European 13.21
    5 Caucasus 12.9
    6 Atlantic_Med 5.1
    7 South_Asian 3
    8 Southwest_Asian 2.25
    9 Southeast_Asian 0.83
    10 Northwest_African 0.26

    Distance to: Uzbek
    5.46026556 Uzbeks
    8.07970296 Hazara
    8.30399904 Uyghur
    9.21689753 Turkmen_Afghanistan
    10.07504342 Uzbek
    11.88161184 Karakalpak
    13.05166656 Nogai_Astrakhan
    14.98541291 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
    17.00040294 Kazakh
    19.42555791 Kyrgyz
    21.09822030 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
    21.84468585 Turkmen_Iran
    23.83653708 Bashkir
    24.42534340 Tajik_Mountain
    25.88298089 Turkmen_TM
    26.82387556 Tajik_Lowland
    27.69282037 Lipka_Tatar
    29.54851265 Nogai
    29.97975317 Altai
    30.30013036 Tajik_Herat
    31.42825480 Pamiri_Shughnan
    31.84172734 Pamiri_Ishkashim
    31.95105476 Kalmyk
    32.17324976 Pamiri_Rushan
    32.25077984 Tajik_Kabul

    Uyghur (it seems there is no Uyghur reference in Dodecad k12b)

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Asian 27.44
    2 Siberian 17.54
    3 Gedrosia 16.01
    4 North_European 12.2
    5 Caucasus 9.54
    6 South_Asian 4.98
    7 Southeast_Asian 4.86
    8 Atlantic_Med 4.58
    9 Southwest_Asian 2.85

    Distance to: Uyghur
    6.76985967 Hazara
    9.06718810 Uzbeks
    9.14126359 Karakalpak
    11.38567521 Nogai_Astrakhan
    13.11194112 Turkmen_Afghanistan
    13.28655335 Uzbek
    13.35837191 Kazakh
    15.16859585 Kyrgyz
    18.60490258 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
    22.50986228 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
    24.07484787 Bashkir
    25.99133509 Turkmen_Iran
    27.48439193 Altai
    27.93328660 Kalmyk
    28.88874867 Tajik_Mountain
    29.25454324 Lipka_Tatar
    29.46831858 Mongol_Khalka
    30.07026604 Turkmen_TM
    30.65407151 Nepali_Newar_Shrestha
    31.05454073 Tajik_Lowland
    32.99711806 Mongol
    33.34469673 Nogai
    34.20006871 Tajik_Herat
    35.29698429 Brahmins_from_Uttaranchal
    35.40746249 Tajik_Kabul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altaylı
    vishap you must be banned because You're reducing the iq average and you are too rude

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sora View Post
    Uyghur (it seems there is no Uyghur reference in Dodecad k12b)
    There is. You are using the exact same reference name, so it gets replaced. Put something like UZ instead of Uzbek and try again.

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    Siberian Tatars maybe?

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sora View Post
    Yes, seems so. Also Uyghurs & Uzbeks seem very close to ancient Turkics too. For examplel
    This Uzbek has lower NE than i expected.


  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko
    This Uzbek has lower NE than i expected.
    I've seen many Uzbek results (on a graphic) which have 20%-24% European admixture and also had 38%-50% Mongoloid. I'll post it here if I find the graphic's photo
    Ask Sora: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-Sora-anything



    Quote Originally Posted by Altaylı
    vishap you must be banned because You're reducing the iq average and you are too rude

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