Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 76

Thread: What's the minimum qualification required for Aliyah?

  1. #11
    Johannes factotum
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Longbowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:45 AM
    Location
    Holy Terra
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Jewish
    Ethnicity
    440/512 Ashkenazi, 41/512 Sephardic, 31/512 Musta'arabi, distant English, Portuguese & Spanish
    Ancestry
    67% Middle Eastern Neolithic, 20% European Mesolithic, 10% Eurasian Invasion, 2% Siberian, 1% Africa
    Country
    Great Britain
    Region
    England
    Y-DNA
    E-L29
    mtDNA
    K1a1b1a
    Taxonomy
    Atlanto-Med
    Politics
    Campanilismo
    Religion
    Awaiting the return of King Arthur
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Posts
    29,974
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 33,527/1,132
    Given: 36,462/1,733

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    That one of your grandparents is Jewish under Jewish law or that you have you been a member of any Jewish congregation for a year.
    not even close

    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
    I'll say this once and I don't expect you to ever have me fucking repeat this again.

    Longbowman isn't just a member, he's a lifestyle.
    I live here. I also live here.

    Europeans worldwide * Longbowman's family on 23andme * Classify Longbowman * Ask Longbowman anything

  2. #12
    Sir Paleo Triggerer of Wogs
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    PaleoEuropean's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 06:33 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    British
    Ethnicity
    Norman
    Ancestry
    Better than yours
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Aboriginal
    Y-DNA
    I-M438
    mtDNA
    H2a1
    Taxonomy
    Hunter Gatherer
    Politics
    Central Right
    Hero
    Leif Eriksen
    Religion
    I don't do business over the telephone with the government
    Relationship Status
    Single
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Posts
    5,478
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 4,752/103
    Given: 10,767/50

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dna8 View Post
    Really? I can convert and become eligible?

    I've asked my folks if we have any Jewish descent but they said we don't.
    Yea you convert but you must be with the congregation for a full year. They are starting to relax the laws for Sephardi's so it may even be less now. Nfesh Nnefesh usually has pretty good info and help. Anyone who is a Jew (including reform Jews) is eligible . You need no actual Jewish heritage. You can also ease into the process through acceptance to a Kibbutz where they can aid in the process alongside groups like Nfesh.

  3. #13
    Johannes factotum
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Longbowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:45 AM
    Location
    Holy Terra
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Jewish
    Ethnicity
    440/512 Ashkenazi, 41/512 Sephardic, 31/512 Musta'arabi, distant English, Portuguese & Spanish
    Ancestry
    67% Middle Eastern Neolithic, 20% European Mesolithic, 10% Eurasian Invasion, 2% Siberian, 1% Africa
    Country
    Great Britain
    Region
    England
    Y-DNA
    E-L29
    mtDNA
    K1a1b1a
    Taxonomy
    Atlanto-Med
    Politics
    Campanilismo
    Religion
    Awaiting the return of King Arthur
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Posts
    29,974
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 33,527/1,132
    Given: 36,462/1,733

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    Yea you convert but you must be with the congregation for a full year. They are starting to relax the laws for Sephardi's so it may even be less now. Nfesh Nnefesh usually has pretty good info and help. Anyone who is a Jew (including reform Jews) is eligible . You need no actual Jewish heritage. You can also ease into the process through acceptance to a Kibbutz where they can aid in the process alongside groups like Nfesh.
    Please stop making stuff up. There is no difference in Israel's eyes between Sephardi, Ashkenazi, Temani (etc) immigrants assuming they satisfy the following conditions:

    1) Ethnically Jewish, in that they are 1/4 or more Jewish - one of their grandparents (minimum) needs to be a halakhic Jew OR they themselves need to be a convert to a mainstream Jewish denomination - specifically, Orthodox, Masorti, or Reform. Once you have completed that process, you are eligible for aliyah. Conversion takes years, though.
    2) If 1) is satisfied, whilst they do not need to be observant, they cannot have converted to another religion, even if they are fully Jewish, as this renders them ineligible

    It goes without saying that Messianic 'Jews' do not qualify.

    In practise, however, the Israelis are often reticent to recognise foreign conversions and there are many instances of them deciding that individuals are or were gentiles, despite having raised practising Jewish families, who are then suddenly classified as goyim.

    On the other hand, if you are 25% Jewish and you choose to immigrate, you can bring along your spouse and children, even if they are non-Jewish. Thus, many 1/8 Jewish ex-soviets migrated in the 90s.

    Converting under the auspices of a Sephardic beit din will not make things any faster for you.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
    I'll say this once and I don't expect you to ever have me fucking repeat this again.

    Longbowman isn't just a member, he's a lifestyle.
    I live here. I also live here.

    Europeans worldwide * Longbowman's family on 23andme * Classify Longbowman * Ask Longbowman anything

  4. #14
    . . .
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 07:18 PM
    Ethnicity
    Metalhead
    Country
    Romania
    Y-DNA
    J2-M67
    mtDNA
    H14a
    Religion
    Black Metal
    Gender
    Posts
    7,331
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 6,854/190
    Given: 18,217/216

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    being the child of a non-jew and a 1/4 jew who migrates to Israel.
    are people of full Jewish descent like you rather rare or not?

    also, are you, those of absolute full Jewish descent for so many known generations regarded/praised more than those with less Jewish descent in the Jewish community or Israel?

  5. #15
    Sir Paleo Triggerer of Wogs
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    PaleoEuropean's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 06:33 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    British
    Ethnicity
    Norman
    Ancestry
    Better than yours
    Country
    United States
    Region
    Aboriginal
    Y-DNA
    I-M438
    mtDNA
    H2a1
    Taxonomy
    Hunter Gatherer
    Politics
    Central Right
    Hero
    Leif Eriksen
    Religion
    I don't do business over the telephone with the government
    Relationship Status
    Single
    Age
    29
    Gender
    Posts
    5,478
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 4,752/103
    Given: 10,767/50

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    Please stop making stuff up. There is no difference in Israel's eyes between Sephardi, Ashkenazi, Temani (etc) immigrants assuming they satisfy the following conditions:

    1) Ethnically Jewish, in that they are 1/4 or more Jewish - one of their grandparents (minimum) needs to be a halakhic Jew OR they themselves need to be a convert to a mainstream Jewish denomination - specifically, Orthodox, Masorti, or Reform. Once you have completed that process, you are eligible for aliyah. Conversion takes years, though.
    2) If 1) is satisfied, whilst they do not need to be observant, they cannot have converted to another religion, even if they are fully Jewish, as this renders them ineligible

    It goes without saying that Messianic 'Jews' do not qualify.

    In practise, however, the Israelis are often reticent to recognise foreign conversions and there are many instances of them deciding that individuals are or were gentiles, despite having raised practising Jewish families, who are then suddenly classified as goyim.

    On the other hand, if you are 25% Jewish and you choose to immigrate, you can bring along your spouse and children, even if they are non-Jewish. Thus, many 1/8 Jewish ex-soviets migrated in the 90s.

    Converting under the auspices of a Sephardic beit din will not make things any faster for you.
    You are misreading everything I am saying. I am Not saying they discriminate, but there are a lot of people of Spanish and Portuguese Sephardi descent that do not qualify as they have been disconnected from congregations for a long time. There are tons of congregations springing up in South America supported by Israeli groups. I am not saying being Sephardi will get you anywhere faster, what I am saying is the Israeli system is becoming more lax over time. You are correct, if you go there as a reform convert you are going to maybe have some stigma attached and have to take further steps to even get married, I am just talking the minimum for getting there. I have talked to representatives from the organization I mentioned before, they said 1 year and of course some other stuff alongside, but that is the information they gave me in regards to conversion.

  6. #16
    Johannes factotum
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Longbowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:45 AM
    Location
    Holy Terra
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Jewish
    Ethnicity
    440/512 Ashkenazi, 41/512 Sephardic, 31/512 Musta'arabi, distant English, Portuguese & Spanish
    Ancestry
    67% Middle Eastern Neolithic, 20% European Mesolithic, 10% Eurasian Invasion, 2% Siberian, 1% Africa
    Country
    Great Britain
    Region
    England
    Y-DNA
    E-L29
    mtDNA
    K1a1b1a
    Taxonomy
    Atlanto-Med
    Politics
    Campanilismo
    Religion
    Awaiting the return of King Arthur
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Posts
    29,974
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 33,527/1,132
    Given: 36,462/1,733

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurzat View Post
    are people of full Jewish descent like you rather rare or not?

    also, are you, those of absolute full Jewish descent for so many known generations regarded/praised more than those with less Jewish descent in the Jewish community or Israel?
    There are like, 12-13 million of us kicking around.

    In the ultra-Orthodox community, your yichus is quite important, and that includes not being a convert or the child of converts (or the child of divorced parents, reformniks, etc). In the regular community it's not so important. One of Ariel Sharon's parents was a Subbotnik (ethnic Russian judaiser) and no one cared, obviously.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
    I'll say this once and I don't expect you to ever have me fucking repeat this again.

    Longbowman isn't just a member, he's a lifestyle.
    I live here. I also live here.

    Europeans worldwide * Longbowman's family on 23andme * Classify Longbowman * Ask Longbowman anything

  7. #17
    Johannes factotum
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Longbowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:45 AM
    Location
    Holy Terra
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Jewish
    Ethnicity
    440/512 Ashkenazi, 41/512 Sephardic, 31/512 Musta'arabi, distant English, Portuguese & Spanish
    Ancestry
    67% Middle Eastern Neolithic, 20% European Mesolithic, 10% Eurasian Invasion, 2% Siberian, 1% Africa
    Country
    Great Britain
    Region
    England
    Y-DNA
    E-L29
    mtDNA
    K1a1b1a
    Taxonomy
    Atlanto-Med
    Politics
    Campanilismo
    Religion
    Awaiting the return of King Arthur
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Posts
    29,974
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 33,527/1,132
    Given: 36,462/1,733

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoEuropean View Post
    You are misreading everything I am saying. I am Not saying they discriminate, but there are a lot of people of Spanish and Portuguese Sephardi descent that do not qualify as they have been disconnected from congregations for a long time. There are tons of congregations springing up in South America supported by Israeli groups. I am not saying being Sephardi will get you anywhere faster, what I am saying is the Israeli system is becoming more lax over time. You are correct, if you go there as a reform convert you are going to maybe have some stigma attached and have to take further steps to even get married, I am just talking the minimum for getting there. I have talked to representatives from the organization I mentioned before, they said 1 year and of course some other stuff alongside, but that is the information they gave me in regards to conversion.
    I would say the issue is perhaps with how you're expressing yourself. To be clear:

    1) Obviously, people who are 1/128 Sephardic or whatever do not count as Jews. Being 1/8, 1/16, 1/256 Jewish is not strictly speaking interesting to the Jewish community, although if it's your direct maternal line there is an interesting halakhic question to be raised, particularly if it's within 3 generations, and of course, you are still 'zera yisra'el,' which constitutes a halakhically defined group, but not Jews.
    2) There are several missionary groups that seek to convert 'bnei anusim' to Judaism, many of which focus on South America in the belief that 1/3 of you are 1/128 Sephardic or more. Most Jews view these missionary groups as weirdos, but if you convert, you convert.
    3) It doesn't matter whether or not you're 1/128 Sephardic in the end, it's fairly meaningless. You could live your entire life as a Catholic or whatever and that would be that. Or you could convert to Judaism. Of course, so could a gentile with 0 Jewish heritage. Conversion is easier for people with recent Jewish heritage, particularly a living ancestor, but if anyone's making things easier for you because your great x 6 grandparent might have been a marrano, that's probably a good reason to invalidate the process.

    TL;DR: you said 'things are getting easier for Sephardim' referring to bnei anusim.

    a) Bnei Anusim are not Sephardim, they are Bnei Anusim
    b) Things are exactly the same for them as for any other non-Jew
    c) I guarantee you the state of Israel will not change its criteria for aliyah. It will do what it does now: foment discord amongst diasporic populations to encourage actual Jews to migrate - particulary (currently) focusing on France and Ukraine.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
    I'll say this once and I don't expect you to ever have me fucking repeat this again.

    Longbowman isn't just a member, he's a lifestyle.
    I live here. I also live here.

    Europeans worldwide * Longbowman's family on 23andme * Classify Longbowman * Ask Longbowman anything

  8. #18
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Toppo900's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:54 AM
    Location
    United Arab of Emirates
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Semitic
    Ethnicity
    Arab
    Country
    Palestine
    mtDNA
    U3
    Taxonomy
    Alpine mostly
    Politics
    None
    Relationship Status
    In a relationship
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Posts
    22,502
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 22,495/982
    Given: 17,868/458

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    I would say the issue is perhaps with how you're expressing yourself. To be clear:

    1) Obviously, people who are 1/128 Sephardic or whatever do not count as Jews. Being 1/8, 1/16, 1/256 Jewish is not strictly speaking interesting to the Jewish community, although if it's your direct maternal line there is an interesting halakhic question to be raised, particularly if it's within 3 generations, and of course, you are still 'zera yisra'el,' which constitutes a halakhically defined group, but not Jews.
    2) There are several missionary groups that seek to convert 'bnei anusim' to Judaism, many of which focus on South America in the belief that 1/3 of you are 1/128 Sephardic or more. Most Jews view these missionary groups as weirdos, but if you convert, you convert.
    3) It doesn't matter whether or not you're 1/128 Sephardic in the end, it's fairly meaningless. You could live your entire life as a Catholic or whatever and that would be that. Or you could convert to Judaism. Of course, so could a gentile with 0 Jewish heritage. Conversion is easier for people with recent Jewish heritage, particularly a living ancestor, but if anyone's making things easier for you because your great x 6 grandparent might have been a marrano, that's probably a good reason to invalidate the process.

    TL;DR: you said 'things are getting easier for Sephardim' referring to bnei anusim.

    a) Bnei Anusim are not Sephardim, they are Bnei Anusim
    b) Things are exactly the same for them as for any other non-Jew
    c) I guarantee you the state of Israel will not change its criteria for aliyah. It will do what it does now: foment discord amongst diasporic populations to encourage actual Jews to migrate - particulary (currently) focusing on France and Ukraine.
    What do you call about people who have Jewish genetic ancestry like myself but don't identify themselves as Jews?
    "Pfft, minske dochs!" "Pfft, bitch please!" - with love from Friesland, Netherlands.

  9. #19
    Johannes factotum
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Longbowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:45 AM
    Location
    Holy Terra
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Jewish
    Ethnicity
    440/512 Ashkenazi, 41/512 Sephardic, 31/512 Musta'arabi, distant English, Portuguese & Spanish
    Ancestry
    67% Middle Eastern Neolithic, 20% European Mesolithic, 10% Eurasian Invasion, 2% Siberian, 1% Africa
    Country
    Great Britain
    Region
    England
    Y-DNA
    E-L29
    mtDNA
    K1a1b1a
    Taxonomy
    Atlanto-Med
    Politics
    Campanilismo
    Religion
    Awaiting the return of King Arthur
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Posts
    29,974
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 33,527/1,132
    Given: 36,462/1,733

    1 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toppo900 View Post
    What do you call about people who have Jewish genetic ancestry like myself but don't identify themselves as Jews?
    How you choose to identify is next to irrelevant, it's the culture you were either raised in or chose to immerse yourself in. As neither applies to you, I do not view you as Jewish, but of course, you could become Jewish if you wanted to.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
    I'll say this once and I don't expect you to ever have me fucking repeat this again.

    Longbowman isn't just a member, he's a lifestyle.
    I live here. I also live here.

    Europeans worldwide * Longbowman's family on 23andme * Classify Longbowman * Ask Longbowman anything

  10. #20
    Veteran Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Toppo900's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Last Online
    Today @ 01:54 AM
    Location
    United Arab of Emirates
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Semitic
    Ethnicity
    Arab
    Country
    Palestine
    mtDNA
    U3
    Taxonomy
    Alpine mostly
    Politics
    None
    Relationship Status
    In a relationship
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Posts
    22,502
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 22,495/982
    Given: 17,868/458

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    How you choose to identify is next to irrelevant, it's the culture you were either raised in or chose to immerse yourself in. As neither applies to you, I do not view you as Jewish, but of course, you could become Jewish if you wanted to.
    Palestinian Christians are ironically the closest people who are genetically the closest to the ancient Israelites along with the Samaritans and so on. Here's my G25 results:

    Fit 1.1002

    Levant_Canaanite_MBA: 63.33
    IRN_Seh_Gabi_C: 14.17
    Mozabite: 13.33
    RUS_Afanasievo: 9.17

    Your oracle

    1. [email protected]
    2. [email protected]
    3. [email protected]
    4. [email protected]
    5. [email protected]
    6. [email protected]
    7. [email protected]
    8. [email protected]
    9. [email protected]
    10. [email protected]
    11. [email protected](I am pretty sure this Bedouin sample is mixed with a Levantine person)
    12. [email protected]
    13. [email protected]
    14. [email protected]
    15. [email protected]
    16. [email protected]
    17. [email protected]
    18. [email protected]
    19. [email protected]
    20. [email protected]
    21. [email protected]
    22. [email protected]
    23. [email protected]
    24. [email protected]
    25. Turkish[email protected]
    26. [email protected]
    27. [email protected]
    28. [email protected]
    29. [email protected]
    30. [email protected]
    31. [email protected]
    32. [email protected]
    33. [email protected]
    34. [email protected]
    35. [email protected]
    36. [email protected]
    37. [email protected]
    38. [email protected]
    39. [email protected]
    40. [email protected]
    41. [email protected]
    42. [email protected]
    43. [email protected]
    44. Yemenite_Ma'[email protected]
    45. [email protected]
    46. [email protected]
    47. [email protected]
    48. [email protected]
    49. [email protected]
    50. [email protected]

    I could become one but I'm afraid my parents would kick me out of the house if I did that, rofl. I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior though..but theoretically speaking, I would be a full blooded Jew If I converted to Judaism, no?
    "Pfft, minske dochs!" "Pfft, bitch please!" - with love from Friesland, Netherlands.

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 27
    Last Post: 11-14-2017, 08:49 PM
  2. 2018 World cup Qualification frenzy
    By Egyptian in forum Sport
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-10-2017, 10:11 PM
  3. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-17-2017, 05:42 AM
  4. 2014 FIFA World Cup qualification
    By Corvus in forum Sport
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 10-17-2012, 01:53 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •