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Thread: Why won't Atheists admit they have benefited from a Christian society?

  1. #61
    Veteran Member Hektor12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Atheists still get their morality from religious teachings whether they realise it or not.
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    They still copy their morality from the dominant religion of that society.
    Nop.

    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Atheists in China regularly cheat, steal, and cut in line
    And atheists in the west, christians, muslims, jews dont?

    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    And many non-white societies around the world don't share modern secular values either.
    Modern secular values formed by two things= 1- Documentation of the events, so they wouldnt end up forgotten and to be judged in the future. Invention of printing press and book culture in the Europe allowed this. 2- Historically seperated powers in a considerably small part of the world. Pope was in Rome, and neither west nor north had control on him. So... They needed to find something else, which is secularism.

    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Anyway, there is nothing wrong with being an Atheist.
    Theres one thing wrong imho= How do you make sure that theres no any power behind the universe, when you cant even reach to Mars (the closest planet) currently?

  2. #62
    Puto el que lee Jacques de Imbelloni's Avatar
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    Role of Christianity in civilization

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_o...edieval_period


    Politics and law

    From early persecution to state religion

    The foundation of canon law is found in its earliest texts and their interpretation in the church fathers' writings. Christianity began as a Jewish sect in the mid-1st century arising out of the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. The life of Jesus is recounted in the New Testament of the Bible, one of the bedrock texts of Western Civilization and inspiration for countless works of Western art. [33] Jesus' birth is commemorated in the festival of Christmas, his death during the Paschal Triduum, and his resurrection during Easter. Christmas and Easter remain holidays in many Western nations.
    Jesus learned the texts of the Hebrew Bible, with its Ten Commandments (which later became influential in Western law[citation needed]) and became an influential wandering preacher. He was a persuasive teller of parables and moral philosopher who urged followers to worship God, act without violence or prejudice, and care for the sick, hungry, and poor. These teachings deeply influenced Western culture. Jesus criticized the hypocrisy of the religious establishment, which drew the ire of the authorities, who persuaded the Roman Governor of the province of Judaea, Pontius Pilate, to have him executed. The Talmud says Jesus was executed for sorcery and for leading the people into apostacy.[34] In Jerusalem, around 30AD, Jesus was crucified.[35]
    The early followers of Jesus, including Saints Paul and Peter carried this new theology concerning Jesus and its ethic throughout the Roman Empire and beyond, sowing the seeds for the development of the Catholic Church, of which Saint Peter is considered the first Pope. Christians sometimes faced persecution during these early centuries, particularly for their refusal to join in worshiping the emperors. Nevertheless, carried through the synagogues, merchants and missionaries across the known world, Christianity quickly grew in size and influence.[35] Its unique appeal was partly the result of its values and ethics.[36]

    Human value as a foundation to law


    The world's first civilizations were Mesopotamian sacred states ruled in the name of a divinity or by rulers who were seen as divine. Rulers, and the priests, soldiers and bureaucrats who carried out their will, were a small minority who kept power by exploiting the many.[37]
    If we turn to the roots of our western tradition, we find that in Greek and Roman times not all human life was regarded as inviolable and worthy of protection. Slaves and 'barbarians' did not have a full right to life and human sacrifices and gladiatorial combat were acceptable... Spartan Law required that deformed infants be put to death; for Plato, infanticide is one of the regular institutions of the ideal State; Aristotle regards abortion as a desirable option; and the Stoic philosopher Seneca writes unapologetically: "Unnatural progeny we destroy; we drown even children who at birth are weakly and abnormal... And whilst there were deviations from these views..., it is probably correct to say that such practices...were less proscribed in ancient times. Most historians of western morals agree that the rise of ...Christianity contributed greatly to the general feeling that human life is valuable and worthy of respect.[38]
    W.E.H.Lecky gives the now classical account of the sanctity of human life in his history of European morals saying Christianity "formed a new standard, higher than any which then existed in the world...".[39] Christian ethicist David P. Gushee says "The justice teachings of Jesus are closely related to a commitment to life's sanctity...".[40] John Keown, a professor of Christian ethics distinguishes this 'sanctity of life' doctrine from "a quality of life approach, which recognizes only instrumental value in human life, and a vitalistic approach, which regards life as an absolute moral value... [Kewon says it is the] sanctity of life approach ... which embeds a presumption in favor of preserving life, but concedes that there are circumstances in which life should not be preserved at all costs", and it is this which provides the solid foundation for law concerning end of life issues.[41]

    Early legal views of women


    Rome had a social caste system, with women having "no legal independence and no independent property".[42] Early Christianity, as Pliny the Younger explains in his letters to Emperor Trajan, had people from "every age and rank, and both sexes".[43] Pliny reports arresting two slave women who claimed to be 'deaconesses' in the first decade of the second century.[44] There was a rite for the ordination of women deacons in the Roman Pontifical (a liturgical book) up through the 12th century. For women deacons, the oldest rite in the West comes from an eighth-century book, whereas Eastern rites go back to the third century and there are more of them.[45]
    The New Testament refers to a number of women in Jesus' inner circle. There are several Gospel accounts of Jesus imparting important teachings to and about women: his meeting with the Samaritan woman at the well, his anointing by Mary of Bethany, his public admiration for a poor widow who donated two copper coins to the Temple in Jerusalem, his stepping to the aid of the woman accused of adultery, his friendship with Mary and Martha the sisters of Lazarus, and the presence of Mary Magdalene, his mother, and the other women as he was crucified. Historian Geoffrey Blainey concludes that "as the standing of women was not high in Palestine, Jesus' kindnesses towards them were not always approved by those who strictly upheld tradition".[46]
    According to Christian apologist Tim Keller, it was common in the Greco-Roman world to expose female infants because of the low status of women in society. The church forbade its members to do so. Greco-Roman society saw no value in an unmarried woman, and therefore it was illegal for a widow to go more than two years without remarrying. Christianity did not force widows to marry and supported them financially. Pagan widows lost all control of their husband's estate when they remarried, but the church allowed widows to maintain their husband's estate. Christians did not believe in cohabitation. If a Christian man wanted to live with a woman, the church required marriage, and this gave women legal rights and far greater security. Finally, the pagan double standard of allowing married men to have extramarital sex and mistresses was forbidden. Jesus' teachings on divorce and Paul's advocacy of monogamy began the process of elevating the status of women so that Christian women tended to enjoy greater security and equality than women in surrounding cultures.[47]

    Laws affecting children


    In the ancient world, infanticide was not legal but was rarely prosecuted. A broad distinction was popularly made between infanticide and infant exposure, which was widely practiced. Many exposed children died, but many were taken by speculators who raised them to be slaves or prostitutes. It is not possible to ascertain, with any degree of accuracy, what diminution of infanticide resulted from legal efforts against it in the Roman empire. "It may, however, be safely asserted that the publicity of the trade in exposed children became impossible under the influence of Christianity, and that the sense of the seriousness of the crime was very considerably increased."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques de Imbelloni View Post
    The Renaissance came from catholic universities it didn't pop out of nowere, please stop repeating this crap as if 1000 years of christianity didnt have any influence in modern western society.
    Most people ignore the doctrine of the church and believe that Christianity is to join hands and ask a wish from the bearded man, or just give your flower to the hubby ... Christian institutions (I am not sure to include the Orthodox branch) such as monasteries, universities, ... kept/possessed the "sapientiae" books that helped to continue and develop the old tradition and other knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
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    Lo mas interesante e ironico (al menos para un foro como este) es la falta de negros.

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