Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: I have some doubts in Aryans migration and their genetic history.

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Imperator Biff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Last Online
    07-30-2021 @ 06:32 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ethnicity
    Undiluted lower rhine bell beaker skull smasher
    Country
    Ireland
    Region
    Leinster
    Y-DNA
    R1b1a1a2a1a2c1e R1b-L21 (R1b-Z255)
    mtDNA
    K1a10a
    Taxonomy
    Keltic-Nordid + Brünn
    Politics
    Read Siege
    Hero
    Charles Manson, William Luther Pierce, George Lincoln Rockwell, James Mason
    Religion
    My race is my religion
    Gender
    Posts
    389
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 338
    Given: 225

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Corded ware was exclusively R1a-M417 unlike yamnaya which was all R1b-Z2103, but there have been R1a samples found in older horizons ancestral to both cultures (sredni stog, khyvalnsk) we also have R1a-Z93 samples from srubnaya, potapovka, poltavka, sintashta and andronovo (last two were the proto-indo-iranians and source of steppe ancestry in South Asia).
    The Andronovo that entered India bypassed BMAC and interacted directly with late harappan populations in the swat valley. The ones whom migrated to what is now Iran on the other hand carried a large amount of BMAC ancestry and were a 50/50 mix of both.

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Last Online
    08-06-2019 @ 06:31 PM
    Ethnicity
    (i∂-m)Ψ=0
    Country
    Vietnam
    Gender
    Posts
    1,611
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 522
    Given: 315

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    There was a migration from Andronovo into India only in the Iron Age. Indo-Iranian is much older than Iron Age (1500 BC). Also during this time Mitanni Aryans and Kassites (and before them Guti) were already present in West Asia! And Andronovo migration was not the only migration into India during the Iron Age. There was another one to from South Central Asia.





    Last edited by MS85; 05-09-2019 at 06:52 PM.

  3. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Last Online
    08-06-2019 @ 06:31 PM
    Ethnicity
    (i∂-m)Ψ=0
    Country
    Vietnam
    Gender
    Posts
    1,611
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 522
    Given: 315

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    At Iron Age India (Saidu Sharif IA) I don't see EHG at all.

    SPGT / Saidu Sharif IA = 55% Neolithic Anatolia & Neolithic Iran + 45% AASI & West Siberian HG


    Last edited by MS85; 05-09-2019 at 07:19 PM.

  4. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Last Online
    08-06-2019 @ 06:31 PM
    Ethnicity
    (i∂-m)Ψ=0
    Country
    Vietnam
    Gender
    Posts
    1,611
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 522
    Given: 315

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    With Mitanni/Kassites (~1700 BC) and GUTI (~2500 BC) in Kurdistan (proto-)Iranian languages already PREDATE Iron Age (~1500 BC) migration from the Mongloid Central Asia Steppes into India.
    Last edited by MS85; 05-09-2019 at 07:18 PM.

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Imperator Biff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Last Online
    07-30-2021 @ 06:32 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ethnicity
    Undiluted lower rhine bell beaker skull smasher
    Country
    Ireland
    Region
    Leinster
    Y-DNA
    R1b1a1a2a1a2c1e R1b-L21 (R1b-Z255)
    mtDNA
    K1a10a
    Taxonomy
    Keltic-Nordid + Brünn
    Politics
    Read Siege
    Hero
    Charles Manson, William Luther Pierce, George Lincoln Rockwell, James Mason
    Religion
    My race is my religion
    Gender
    Posts
    389
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 338
    Given: 225

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Iron Age swat valley sample possessing Steppe_MLBA related admixture

    Udegram_IA (15 samples)
    Gonur1_BA 32%
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3 31.8%
    Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2 15.4%
    Sintashta_MLBA 12.7%
    Dali_EBA 5.4%
    Naxi 2.7%
    Hajji_Firuz_ChL 0%
    Tepe_Hissar_ChL 0%

    Distance 0.9495%

    AIT confirmed, game over.

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Imperator Biff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Last Online
    07-30-2021 @ 06:32 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ethnicity
    Undiluted lower rhine bell beaker skull smasher
    Country
    Ireland
    Region
    Leinster
    Y-DNA
    R1b1a1a2a1a2c1e R1b-L21 (R1b-Z255)
    mtDNA
    K1a10a
    Taxonomy
    Keltic-Nordid + Brünn
    Politics
    Read Siege
    Hero
    Charles Manson, William Luther Pierce, George Lincoln Rockwell, James Mason
    Religion
    My race is my religion
    Gender
    Posts
    389
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 338
    Given: 225

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MS85 View Post
    With Mitanni/Kassites (~1700 BC) and GUTI (~2500 BC) in Kurdistan (proto-)Iranian languages already PREDATE Iron Age (~1500 BC) migration from the Mongloid Central Asia Steppes into India.
    Neither the Mitanni nor Gutians had anything to do with Iranian.
    Mitanni spoke nonIE hurrian and Gutians spoke an unrelated IE language.
    Iranian did not truly form until the Iron Age Yaz culture in Turan.

  7. #17
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Last Online
    Today @ 05:47 AM
    Location
    Southern Europe
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Oghuz Turkic and Medes Iranic
    Ethnicity
    Azeri Turk
    Ancestry
    Qizilbash Turkic
    Country
    European Union
    Relationship Status
    Married
    Gender
    Posts
    4,677
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,433
    Given: 2,732

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    R1a is an Iranian haplogroup. It diversified in Iran as two research papers by Pamjev and Underhill state the same thing. Its presence in south asia may have come in waves starting from Iranian neolithic farmers who formed the Indus valley Civilisation, then Aryans (Steppe+BMAC Iranians) and later Sycthians who were again Iranians.

    Z93 subclade probably diversified some 6000 years ago in Northern and central Iranic plateau. It stayed in Iran while the Z282 reached europe either through anatolia or through east side of caspian sea..

    the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran Underhill, Peter A. (2014), "The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a", European Journal of Human Genetics, 23 (1): 124–131, doi:10.1038/ejhg.2014.50, ISSN 1018-4813, PMC 4266736, PMID 24667786



    Aryans that entered South Asia were steppe people from Andronovo who got Iranicised by interaction with BMAC. Even today, the Pamiri Tajik or Pashtun Iranics who live in that region have 50 % R1a Z93 haplogroup. Aryans must have looked like how present day Iranid or Irano Nordoid phenotype looks like because that explains the elongated skull of Nord Indid phenotype that is common among upper caste south asians esp Pakis.

  8. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Last Online
    08-06-2019 @ 06:31 PM
    Ethnicity
    (i∂-m)Ψ=0
    Country
    Vietnam
    Gender
    Posts
    1,611
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 522
    Given: 315

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperator Biff View Post
    Neither the Mitanni nor Gutians had anything to do with Iranian.
    Mitanni spoke nonIE hurrian and Gutians spoke an unrelated IE language.
    Iranian did not truly form until the Iron Age Yaz culture in Turan.
    The 'Aryan' Gods of the Mitanni Treaties

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/595878?...n_tab_contents


    Also, names of their leaders were Aryan. From horse trainer Kikkuli we know that they used Aryan words and counted to ten in the Aryan.

    http://www.lrgaf.org/Peter_Raulwing_...e_Dec_2009.pdf

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Imperator Biff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Last Online
    07-30-2021 @ 06:32 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ethnicity
    Undiluted lower rhine bell beaker skull smasher
    Country
    Ireland
    Region
    Leinster
    Y-DNA
    R1b1a1a2a1a2c1e R1b-L21 (R1b-Z255)
    mtDNA
    K1a10a
    Taxonomy
    Keltic-Nordid + Brünn
    Politics
    Read Siege
    Hero
    Charles Manson, William Luther Pierce, George Lincoln Rockwell, James Mason
    Religion
    My race is my religion
    Gender
    Posts
    389
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 338
    Given: 225

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MS85 View Post
    The 'Aryan' Gods of the Mitanni Treaties

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/595878?...n_tab_contents


    Also, names of their leaders were Aryan. From horse trainer Kikkuli we know that they used Aryan words and counted to ten in the Aryan.

    http://www.lrgaf.org/Peter_Raulwing_...e_Dec_2009.pdf
    The names of the gods from cuneiform texts were deemed to be Vedic ergo Old Indic. Not Iranian.
    Iranian probably split from Indo-Aryan just before Andronovo mixed with BMAC and even retained a non IE substrate from them.

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Imperator Biff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Last Online
    07-30-2021 @ 06:32 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ethnicity
    Undiluted lower rhine bell beaker skull smasher
    Country
    Ireland
    Region
    Leinster
    Y-DNA
    R1b1a1a2a1a2c1e R1b-L21 (R1b-Z255)
    mtDNA
    K1a10a
    Taxonomy
    Keltic-Nordid + Brünn
    Politics
    Read Siege
    Hero
    Charles Manson, William Luther Pierce, George Lincoln Rockwell, James Mason
    Religion
    My race is my religion
    Gender
    Posts
    389
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 338
    Given: 225

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meson View Post
    R1a is an Iranian haplogroup. It diversified in Iran as two research papers by Pamjev and Underhill state the same thing. Its presence in south asia may have come in waves starting from Iranian neolithic farmers who formed the Indus valley Civilisation, then Aryans (Steppe+BMAC Iranians) and later Sycthians who were again Iranians.

    Z93 subclade probably diversified some 6000 years ago in Northern and central Iranic plateau. It stayed in Iran while the Z282 reached europe either through anatolia or through east side of caspian sea..

    the initial episodes of haplogroup R1a diversification likely occurred in the vicinity of present-day Iran Underhill, Peter A. (2014), "The phylogenetic and geographic structure of Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a", European Journal of Human Genetics, 23 (1): 124–131, doi:10.1038/ejhg.2014.50, ISSN 1018-4813, PMC 4266736, PMID 24667786



    Aryans that entered South Asia were steppe people from Andronovo who got Iranicised by interaction with BMAC. Even today, the Pamiri Tajik or Pashtun Iranics who live in that region have 50 % R1a Z93 haplogroup. Aryans must have looked like how present day Iranid or Irano Nordoid phenotype looks like because that explains the elongated skull of Nord Indid phenotype that is common among upper caste south asians esp Pakis.
    Nope, outdated study from a decade ago.
    Oldest R1a samples on record are from Mesolithic Eastern Europe. Zagros farmers had none.
    And the oldest R1a-Z93 samples have been from steppe horizons like poltavka, sintashta, srubnaya and potapovka and through subsequent founder effects became the dominant lineage of central and South Asia, it isn’t basal to any snps found in Europe. BMAC wasn’t even IE let alone Iranic. It was an urbanised agricultural civilisation much like IVC was and some BMAC samples have turned up with as much as 40% AASI, so it may have even been a harappan outpost at one point.
    As for the phenotype of Andronovo, corded nordid seems to be the predominant strain amongst them which makes sense as ultimately their origin is from the CWC.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Genetic history of Europe
    By The Blade in forum Articles and Publications
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-31-2019, 09:28 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-14-2018, 10:36 AM
  3. The Genetic History of Ice Age Europe
    By poiuytrewq0987 in forum DNA Scientific Papers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-23-2016, 07:18 PM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-07-2012, 11:49 AM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-12-2009, 06:08 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •