Eye and hair colour studies of Bulgarians from various parts of the country by Metodi Popov

[The Blade]

You wouldn't happen to have any links or screenshots of these studies, would you?

Yordanov's results are mentioned here - I have already posted the link:
http://dnagenealogy-bg.org/mybb/showthread.php?tid=701
''Зелени и сини очи по Мартин:
Българи и малцинства; четирицифрена извадка по Йорданов - 52%/43%"

I'll translate it for you with some explanations:
''Blue and green (apparently grey is also counted among these) eyes by the Martin scale:
Bulgarians vs. minorities (four-digit excerpt) from Yordanov - 52% vs. 43% respectively."
Unfortunately, nowadays authors don't use the tables method. Yordanov has discussed various matters but all of the interviews I find are in Bulgarian.

[The Blade]

This is the key for comparison between the Martin Scale and the Classifications of other Anthropologists:


It is from Karl Pearson’s work on Alien Jewish children in England, so the statistics have nothing to do with Bulgaria, but the key can be used to compare standards between studies.

Here’s the link:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1925.tb02037.x

The largest pigmentation survey done on Bulgarians to my knowledge was carried out by Stephen Wateff in 1896.

He used the Virchow standard and thus he counted all mixed or dark-mixed eyes as grey.
Brown only included pure brown eyes of various shades.

So it seems roughly 60% of Bulgarians have pure brown eyes based on Wateff‘s work.

Hi!
On page 2 I and member Bodent already discussed Vatev (I prefer transliteration method when dealing with names):
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...di-Popov/page2
I would agree that he seems to have counted blue-green eyes as blue and green-grey ones as grey. However, part of what Virchow might have called ''brown'' would be considered hazel by other authors and by many people in general. 60% brown eyes (without including dark-mixed ones like hazel) by common standards nowadays is more possible to be found in some areas of Southern Greece rather than as Bulgarian average. And 60% or more of pure brown eyes (without counting the dark-mixed hazel) on average for a nation is what I would expect the results of Malta or Cyprus to be.
Another thing is Vatev's results include children as well. My point here is about hair color.
Yes, sure, a large part of Bulgarian children (like maybe 35% in my observations) are born blond/blonde. But a large part become brown-haired in childhood and sometimes even during puberty.
Among adults I agree that women are in 20-25% range blonde in most areas of the state. However, from personal experience I can tell you men are less blond. An average blondism of 29% would be impossible among adults here.

[Supercomputer]

This is the key for comparison between the Martin Scale and the Classifications of other Anthropologists:


It is from Karl Pearson’s work on Alien Jewish children in England, so the statistics have nothing to do with Bulgaria, but the key can be used to compare standards between studies.

Here’s the link:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...1925.tb02037.x

The largest pigmentation survey done on Bulgarians to my knowledge was carried out by Stephen Wateff in 1896.

He used the Virchow standard and thus he counted all mixed or dark-mixed eyes as grey.
Brown only included pure brown eyes of various shades.

So it seems roughly 60% of Bulgarians have pure brown eyes based on Wateff‘s work.

Thanks for the scale. It fits very well. Vatef found 35% of Bulgarians light eyed according to the same standards as Virchow's Germany of 72,6% However it should be noted Vatef studied more boys than girls (roughly 2/3)

[Supercomputer]

Hi!
On page 2 I and member Bodent already discussed Vatev (I prefer transliteration method when dealing with names):
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...di-Popov/page2
Yes, sure, a large part of Bulgarian children (like maybe 35% in my observations) are born blond/blonde. But a large part become brown-haired in childhood and sometimes even during puberty.
Among adults I agree that women are in 20-25% range blonde in most areas of the state. However, from personal experience I can tell you men are less blond. An average blondism of 29% would be impossible among adults here.

Depends on the definition of blonde. I don't have numbers for Bulgaria but for Serbia they are:

pure blond 2%
blond 4,7%
dark blond 13,5%

It goes up to a total of 33% if you include medium brown

XenophobicPrussian is currently conducting a study on footballers done exclusively on inside lighting his numbers for Serbia so far are similar - 3,3% blond and 17% if you include blond + dark blond. His numbers for Bulgaria aren't out yet, it would be interesting to see.

[Dawnbringer]

Hi!
On page 2 I and member Bodent already discussed Vatev (I prefer transliteration method when dealing with names):
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...di-Popov/page2
I would agree that he seems to have counted blue-green eyes as blue and green-grey ones as grey. However, part of what Virchow might have called ''brown'' would be considered hazel by other authors and by many people in general. 60% brown eyes (without including dark-mixed ones like hazel) by common standards nowadays is more possible to be found in some areas of Southern Greece rather than as Bulgarian average. And 60% or more of pure brown eyes (without counting the dark-mixed hazel) on average for a nation is what I would expect the results of Malta or Cyprus to be.
Another thing is Vatev's results include children as well. My point here is about hair color.
Yes, sure, a large part of Bulgarian children (like maybe 35% in my observations) are born blond/blonde. But a large part become brown-haired in childhood and sometimes even during puberty.
Among adults I agree that women are in 20-25% range blonde in most areas of the state. However, from personal experience I can tell you men are less blond. An average blondism of 29% would be impossible among adults here.

I am Bodent. I just found that key when searching though old studies.

I know Wateff based his work off of Virchow and his threefold Scale, so I thought that this key could be used to compare between the Martin scale and his work.

Supercomputer once said that grey eyes only refers to green eyes and not hazel and that hazel is included under brown which appears to be false. Brown eyes means pure brown eyes. Also, Blue eyes with the threefold scale is not just pure blue eyes, but also blue-grey and grey-blue eyes and all light mixed eyes as well with the exception of dark grey.

For anthropologists using the threefold scale Blue eyes means light and light-mixed eyes with the exception of dark grey, grey eyes mean mixed and dark mixed eyes along with dark grey eyes and brown means pure dark eyes.

Wateff’s data for blond hair is of course not representative of adults, but can be used to compare with Central European schoolchildren and ethnic minorities in Bulgaria.

I don’t think Wateff’s eye color results are unexpected. Bulgarians are only slightly lighter eyed than Thracian Greeks who are about 65% pure Brown eyed. With hair color Bulgarians are not lighter at all. The notion that Bulgarians are much lighter pigmented than Greeks to the immediate south is false.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Depends on the definition of blonde. I don't have numbers for Bulgaria but for Serbia they are:

pure blond 2%
blond 4,7%
dark blond 13,5%

It goes up to a total of 33% if you include medium brown

XenophobicPrussian is currently conducting a study on footballers done exclusively on inside lighting his numbers for Serbia so far are similar - 3,3% blond and 17% if you include blond + dark blond. His numbers for Bulgaria aren't out yet, it would be interesting to see.

The 17% is if you include my light brown, but yeah. 3.3% includes my definition of dark blonde, Toe had 5% for Serbia for all blonde.

[Dawnbringer]

Thanks for the scale. It fits very well. Vatef found 35% of Bulgarians light eyed according to the same standards as Virchow's Germany of 72,6% However it should be noted Vatef studied more boys than girls (roughly 2/3)

Wateff carried out a much larger survey in 1896, observing 236,884 schoolchildren with at least 1000 from each district.
He found 59.76% of eyes in brown category equivalent to Martin Scale 1-6.

Here’s the link: https://books.google.com/books?id=DMgcAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=anthropo logische+beobachtung+an+den+schuelern+und+soldaten +bulgaren&source=bl&ots=Zt17BXbHUj&sig=ACfU3U0Ma9I nmSliQ6ADqH4j-PKdmH0T4w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjWyrWPrpLiAhWttlkK HXaPBI8Q6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=anthropologisch e%20beobachtung%20an%20den%20schuelern%20und%20sol daten%20bulgaren&f=false"]https://books.google.com/books?id=DMgcAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=anthropo logische+beobachtung+an+den+schuelern+und+soldaten +bulgaren&source=bl&ots=Zt17BXbHUj&sig=ACfU3U0Ma9I nmSliQ6ADqH4j-PKdmH0T4w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjWyrWPrpLiAhWttlkK HXaPBI8Q6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=anthropologisch e%20beobachtung%20an%20den%20schuelern%20und%20sol daten%20bulgaren&f=false"]https://books.google.com/books?id=DMgcAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=anthropo logische+beobachtung+an+den+schuelern+und+soldaten +bulgaren&source=bl&ots=Zt17BXbHUj&sig=ACfU3U0Ma9I nmSliQ6ADqH4j-PKdmH0T4w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjWyrWPrpLiAhWttlkK HXaPBI8Q6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=anthropologisch e%20beobachtung%20an%20den%20schuelern%20und%20sol daten%20bulgaren&f=false

[The Blade]

Depends on the definition of blonde. I don't have numbers for Bulgaria but for Serbia they are:

pure blond 2%
blond 4,7%
dark blond 13,5%

It goes up to a total of 33% if you include medium brown

XenophobicPrussian is currently conducting a study on footballers done exclusively on inside lighting his numbers for Serbia so far are similar - 3,3% blond and 17% if you include blond + dark blond. His numbers for Bulgaria aren't out yet, it would be interesting to see.

The definition of the Fischer-Saller scale, I mean. Medium brown or light brown not included, of course.
2 + 4,7 + 13,5 = 20,2% of blonds/blondes in Serbia is possible (about half an year ago I read some study claiming about 15% but I don't remember the author as I wasn't much interested in the subject back then). Anyway, 33% among adults is a useless exaggeration for both Serbia and Bulgaria (obviously counting light brown). By the same scheme Sweden would be around 60% which I don't see as accurate to be treated as blond simply. Rather ''light'' counting light brown and red/reddish.

[The Blade]

Bulgarians are only slightly lighter eyed than Thracian Greeks who are about 65% pure Brown eyed. With hair color Bulgarians are no lighter at all. The notion that Bulgarians are much lighter pigmented than Greeks to the immediate south is false.

First of all, hello and welcome back! Good to see you here.
Anyway, I have to disagree with this part I quote. We are indeed significantly lighter-eyed and lighter-haired than Greeks. I studied in university with many Greeks few years ago (we have cheaper taxes and a lot of students from both Athens and Western Thrace get their university education here) and I have to tell you a Greek group of students is always recognizable from a Bulgarian one.
Most men are dark brown-haired (medium brown is less common, while light brown and blond combined make 15% of Greek men at most). Greek men are robust, tall, usually with impressive bizygomatic breadth. Bulgarians are mainly medium brown-haired with both dark brown and blond shades being not rare. Also, while about the same in terms of height, Bulgarians don't have as wide faces as most Greek men do.
Another thing I saw is most Greeks have dark beards (often black). While this trait exists among Bulgarians, it's much less common. I and most of my friends have beards lighter than the hair colour.
Regarding women, the difference is even more obvious. Greek women are more alpinised, significantly darker-haired and more prone to get overweight (I don't mean to be rude, it's simply what I have seen). They are mainly Alpine-Med or Dinaro-Med. Bulgarian women are as a group taller, slimmer, lighter-eyed and lighter-haired.

[Dawnbringer]

First of all, hello and welcome back! Good to see you here.
Anyway, I have to disagree with this part I quote. We are indeed significantly lighter-eyed and lighter-haired than Greeks. I studied in university with many Greeks few years ago (we have cheaper taxes and a lot of students from both Athens and Western Thrace get their university education here) and I have to tell you a Greek group of students is always recognizable from a Bulgarian one.
Most men are dark brown-haired (medium brown is less common, while light brown and blond combined make 15% of Greek men at most). Greek men are robust, tall, usually with impressive bizygomatic breadth. Bulgarians are mainly medium brown-haired with both dark brown and blond shades being not rare. Also, while about the same in terms of height, Bulgarians don't have as wide faces as most Greek men do.
Another thing I saw is most Greeks have dark beards (often black). While this trait exists among Bulgarians, it's much less common. I and most of my friends have beards lighter than the hair colour.
Regarding women, the difference is even more obvious. Greek women are more alpinised, significantly darker-haired and more prone to get overweight (I don't mean to be rude, it's simply what I have seen). They are mainly Alpine-Med or Dinaro-Med. Bulgarian women are as a group taller, slimmer, lighter-eyed and lighter-haired.

I was more referring to ancient communities of Greeks living on the Black Sea coast.
They may have more Slavic admixture then typical Greeks.

Wateff did a survey of ethnic minorities in Bulgaria in 1900 including 4589 Greeks from the Black Sea coast of Northern and Eastern Thrace.

Here’s the link:
https://books.google.com/books?dq=wa...türken&f=false

Here’s a photo of the Greek statistics:


With relatively recent Greek immigrants or exchange students the situation could be different, but the ancient Greeks communities do not appear notably darker than ethnic Bulgarians overall.