Eye and hair colour studies of Bulgarians from various parts of the country by Metodi Popov

[The Blade]

I was more referring to ancient communities of Greeks living on the Black Sea coast.
They may have more Slavic admixture then typical Greeks.

Wateff did a survey of ethnic minorities in Bulgaria in 1900 including 4589 Greeks from the Black Sea coast of Northern and Eastern Thrace:
Here’s the link:https://books.google.com/books?dq=wa...türken&f=false

Here’s a photo of the Greek statistics:


With relatively recent Greek immigrants or exchange students the situation could be different, but the ancient Greeks communities do not appear darker than ethnic Bulgarians overall.

Many of the Bulgarian Greeks are only 1/2 to 1/4 Greek by origin.

[Dawnbringer]

Many of the Bulgarian Greeks are only 1/2 to 1/4 Greek by origin.

That may be true today, but at the turn of The 20th Century they May have been less assimilated.

In any case they are probably more Slavic admixed than even Macedonian Greeks.

[pelikarski]

Nowadays Bulgarian Greeks are pretty extinct. Only some left in Pomorie

[Supercomputer]

I am Bodent. I just found that key when searching though old studies.

I know Wateff based his work off of Virchow and his threefold Scale, so I thought that this key could be used to compare between the Martin scale and his work.

Supercomputer once said that grey eyes only refers to green eyes and not hazel and that hazel is included under brown which appears to be false. Brown eyes means pure brown eyes. Also, Blue eyes with the threefold scale is not just pure blue eyes, but also blue-grey and grey-blue eyes and all light mixed eyes as well with the exception of dark grey.

For anthropologists using the threefold scale Blue eyes means light and light-mixed eyes with the exception of dark grey, grey eyes mean mixed and dark mixed eyes along with dark grey eyes and brown means pure dark eyes.

Wateff’s data for blond hair is of course not representative of adults, but can be used to compare with Central European schoolchildren and ethnic minorities in Bulgaria.

I don’t think Wateff’s eye color results are unexpected. Bulgarians are only slightly lighter eyed than Thracian Greeks who are about 65% pure Brown eyed. With hair color Bulgarians are not lighter at all. The notion that Bulgarians are much lighter pigmented than Greeks to the immediate south is false.

I'm not that sure that only pure brown were counted under "brown" in Virchow's study. His results of 72% blue + gray fit very well with TKH'n numbers (70%). Also more importantly Julius Kollman found 60% blue and gray for Switzerland in his treefold scale which compares well with Germany's 72% and Kollman for certain didn't use only pure brown under "brown" because his numbers fit almost perfectly with Schlaginhaufen who also studied Switzerland and found only 27% for 1-6 pure brown. (Both had large sample size all over the country)

Perhaps Kollman used different criteria that Virchow despite using the same treefold scale, but that would mean Switzerland is very close to Germany in light eyes, and I don't think so. I think Virchow classified mostly brown under brown, but gray when the green is dominant just like Kollman.

[Supercomputer]

I'm not that sure that only pure brown were counted under "brown" in Virchow's study. His results of 72% blue + gray fit very well with TKH'n numbers (70%). Also more importantly Julius Kollman found 60% blue and gray for Switzerland in his treefold scale which compares well with Germany's 72% and Kollman for certain didn't use only pure brown under "brown" because his numbers fit almost perfectly with Schlaginhaufen who also studied Switzerland and found only 27% for 1-6 pure brown.

Perhaps Kollman used different criteria that Virchow despite using the same treefold scale, but that would mean Switzerland is very close to Germany in light eyes, and I don't think so. I think Virchow classified mostly brown under brown, but gray when the green is dominant.

On the other hand Kollman did use different definition of "blue" than Virchow because he only found 16% blue eyes, just as Schlaginhaufen (15-16) which is low compared to Germany's 39%.

[Dawnbringer]

I'm not that sure that only pure brown were counted under "brown" in Virchow's study. His results of 72% blue + gray fit very well with TKH'n numbers (70%). Also more importantly Julius Kollman found 60% blue and gray for Switzerland in his treefold scale which compares well with Germany's 72% and Kollman for certain didn't use only pure brown under "brown" because his numbers fit almost perfectly with Schlaginhaufen who also studied Switzerland and found only 27% for 1-6 pure brown.

Perhaps Kollman used different criteria that Virchow despite using the same treefold scale, but that would mean Switzerland is very close to Germany in light eyes, and I don't think so. I think Virchow classified mostly brown under brown, but gray when the green is dominant.

Kollman did not use different standards for eye color than Virchow. The only difference between the standards of the two is that Virchow only included brandrothe or flaming-red hair as red hair, while Kollman includes all shades that are more or less red as red hair.

So Kollman’s survey falsely leads one to the impression that Switzerland is drastically more red-haired than neighboring Baden under Virchow, but everything else is perfectly consistent with Swiss being just slight darker than Badeners like one would except.

Look at the data for Baden under Virchow and Switzerland under Kollman. Nothing unexpected.


My call is that Schlaginhaufen‘s data is less representative of the the entire Swiss population than Kollman‘s data is. What was his sample size, how did he obtain his samples, and where did he get them from?

[Dawnbringer]

On the other hand Kollman did use different definition of "blue" than Virchow because he only found 16% blue eyes, just as Schlaginhaufen (15-16) which is low compared to Germany's 39%.

Don’t compare to the whole of Germany. Compare to Virchow’s survey of Baden. Badeners are the closest to Swiss of all Germans.

[CommonSense]

The 17% is if you include my light brown, but yeah. 3.3% includes my definition of dark blonde, Toe had 5% for Serbia for all blonde.

Depends on the definition of blonde. I don't have numbers for Bulgaria but for Serbia they are:

pure blond 2%
blond 4,7%
dark blond 13,5%

It goes up to a total of 33% if you include medium brown

XenophobicPrussian is currently conducting a study on footballers done exclusively on inside lighting his numbers for Serbia so far are similar - 3,3% blond and 17% if you include blond + dark blond. His numbers for Bulgaria aren't out yet, it would be interesting to see.

Just out of curiosity, what criteria are you two using for all of these categories? Can you give an example of what you consider to be dark blonde, light brown, etc. (on males, of course)

[Supercomputer]

Kollman did not use different standards for eye color than Virchow. The only difference between the standards of the two is that Virchow only included brandrothe or flaming-red hair as red hair, while Kollman includes all shades that are more or less red as red hair.

So Kollman’s survey falsely leads one to the impression that Switzerland is drastically more red-haired than neighboring Baden under Virchow, but everything else is perfectly consistent with Swiss being just slight darker than Badeners like one would except.

Look at the data for Baden under Virchow and Switzerland under Kollman. Nothing unexpected.


My call is that Schlaginhaufen‘s data is less representative of the the entire Swiss population than Kollman‘s data is. What was his sample size, how did he obtain his samples, and where did he get them from?

I don't understand the table, what do the columns mean? They don't add up to 100%. Schlaginhaufen used a sample size of 35,000 from all over Switzerland.

[Supercomputer]

Don’t compare to the whole of Germany. Compare to Virchow’s survey of Baden. Badeners are the closest to Swiss of all Germans.

I know, Germany is lighter than Switzerland, but still 16% vs 39% is still too big a difference. Schlaginhaufen found exactly 16% blue eyes (15 and 16 Martin scale) just as Kollman so both likely used a very narrow definition of "blue".